Trump on legal immigration

He's said in the past that he wants to get rid of the h1b, and to overall make it more difficult than it already is to get a greencard.

Note: all American Nobel Prize winners were immigrants, as are significant fractions of the tech industry, graduate programs, etc.

Discuss.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He's said in the past that he wants to get rid of the h1b, and to overall make it more difficult than it already is to get a greencard.

Note: all American Nobel Prize winners were immigrants, as are significant fractions of the tech industry, graduate programs, etc.

Discuss.

Sounds stupid. He should make it easier to get a H1B, in my opinion. We want those people here. They pay more taxes, on average, and commit far far less crimes, on average. We should be getting as many of those people as possible in this country. We should be staking our "professionals" deck as much as possible.

"Highly educated, highly skilled, professionals."

So why do we want to make it harder for them, again?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He's said in the past that he wants to get rid of the h1b, and to overall make it more difficult than it already is to get a greencard.

Note: all American Nobel Prize winners were immigrants, as are significant fractions of the tech industry, graduate programs, etc.

Discuss.

So Barack Obama, Jimmy Carter, Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt were all immigrants.

Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He's said in the past that he wants to get rid of the h1b, and to overall make it more difficult than it already is to get a greencard.

Note: all American Nobel Prize winners were immigrants, as are significant fractions of the tech industry, graduate programs, etc.

Discuss.

Even people I talk with who benefit from h1b admits the tech industry exploits the hell out of the system. It is not used the way it was intended.

So no wonder Siliconvalley is overreacting, as they exploit immigration as much as the guy stocking his Dunkin Donut's chains with undocumented labor (Happened in my town. The guy lost five locations over it.)

Here's one reaction from tech:

http://www.recode.net/2016/11/9/13574396/donald-trump-victory-silicon-valley-meltdown

https://www.quora.com/When-will-the-United-States-stop-exploiting-H1B-visas-and-start-training-and-employing-its-own-citizens

Here, Quora is a well known discussion forum for tech guru's.

The top argument says it all: Why should American corporations pay money to train their own citizens when India will train theirs for free

So yeah, h1b needs to go (Or be seriously reformed to give American citizens more access to the labor market..)

What did Michio Kaku say about the H1-B?

YouTube video

Originally posted by Silent Master
So Barack Obama, Jimmy Carter, Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt were all immigrants.

Thanks for the info.

Duh, Obama was born on some remote beach in Africa.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He's said in the past that he wants to get rid of the h1b, and to overall make it more difficult than it already is to get a greencard.

Note: all American Nobel Prize winners were immigrants, as are significant fractions of the tech industry, graduate programs, etc.

Discuss.

What would your thoughts be about changing the way we do education in this country so that we no longer need to rely on highly skilled people from other countries coming here? Would that be such a negative thing?

Originally posted by jaden101
What did Michio Kaku say about the H1-B?

YouTube video

A lot of h1b "educational system" basically amounts to a two week crash course.

Originally posted by cdtm
A lot of h1b "educational system" basically amounts to a two week crash course.

Elaborate please.

Originally posted by jaden101
Elaborate please.

Ok. This comes from a friend from India with dual citizenship I used to room with, who since moved back home.

The way he explained it, they basically take large batches of prospective exployee's (They even call them "batch's" and label each one, like we do a "class"😉, and they cram them full of as much tech info as they could in a short time. Sort of like our own "tech school's" do, but it's all paid for.

Than they ship them out and put them to work. Of course, some don't absorb the content as well as others, but by sheer numbers coming in, the companies usually can't miss for the most part, with bad programmers being outnumbered by the competent.

Originally posted by cdtm
Ok. This comes from a friend from India with dual citizenship I used to room with, who since moved back home.

The way he explained it, they basically take large batches of prospective exployee's (They even call them "batch's" and label each one, like we do a "class"😉, and they cram them full of as much tech info as they could in a short time. Sort of like our own "tech school's" do, but it's all paid for.

Than they ship them out and put them to work. Of course, some don't absorb the content as well as others, but by sheer numbers coming in, the companies usually can't miss for the most part, with bad programmers being outnumbered by the competent.

So I'm presuming this is for semi-skilled electronic production line type jobs?

Originally posted by jaden101
So I'm presuming this is for semi-skilled electronic production line type jobs?

Programmers.

So you'd throw out the baby with the bath water then?

You stifle cutting edge science so US companies would hire US citizens to programme fibre optic lamps and talking dolls?

Maybe simply instead of getting rid of the H1-B just make it for masters or PhD students or whatever

I still feel we need to work on our education. We're so far behind other countries in a lot of areas when it comes to that. It would be nice to get to a point where our country doesn't experience any negative effects if skilled people from other countries decide not to come here.

This doesn't mean I'm saying I just want to never let anyone in. Just that it'd be nice if we had our own crop of skilled and educated people to pick from, to the extent that getting a skilled immigrant becomes merely a nice bonus for this country.

Originally posted by Surtur
I still feel we need to work on our education. We're so far behind other countries in a lot of areas when it comes to that. It would be nice to get to a point where our country doesn't experience any negative effects if skilled people from other countries decide not to come here.

This doesn't mean I'm saying I just want to never let anyone in. Just that it'd be nice if we had our own crop of skilled and educated people to pick from, to the extent that getting a skilled immigrant becomes merely a nice bonus for this country.

It's not just a matter of education though, it's also about populations. If countries like China and India were to take the top 20% top IQ folks to teach/train they have access to more talent then we have citizens in the US.

They have much deeper talent pools to draw from, its simple #'s.

Originally posted by Surtur
What would your thoughts be about changing the way we do education in this country so that we no longer need to rely on highly skilled people from other countries coming here? Would that be such a negative thing?

Sorry, but in the short-medium term that's a pretty unicorn proposal, and not something that Trump has a clear solution to. It also isn't just about education, it's also about talent, which more agreeable immigration policies excel in drawing. And this isn't getting into the ethical questions of why we're denying people who want to become Americans and are working hard to do so the opportunity to try.

If Trump were president during WWII, we might have never had the huge brain drain into America that Nazi Germany caused, and maybe the only atom bombs used in war wouldn't have been from our end.

I agree it's not a solution for the short term. But we do need to do serious work on our education system, and I would think the ideal state for a country would be to not have to rely on outside talents. Even though that wouldn't mean we wouldn't accept any.

Originally posted by cdtm
A lot of h1b "educational system" basically amounts to a two week crash course.

Honestly, it's more about intelligence than education. We need to get super smart people to come here; right now our immigration system allows for this to a degree, but there are still pretty hefty difficulties for even incredible talents to go through all of the hurdles. Trump isn't going to fix that, not if he follows through with his policy proposals.

And yeah, I know that Trump says he'll vet people by skill, but somehow I think he'll really end up vetting them by ethnicity.

Originally posted by Surtur
I agree it's not a solution for the short term. But we do need to do serious work on our education system, and I would think the ideal state for a country would be to not have to rely on outside talents. Even though that wouldn't mean we wouldn't accept any.

Yeah it isn't mutually exclusive.