Originally posted by Kurk
Regardless, Maul was pushing Sidious down and landed a kick on him. Sidious was not toying during that section of the fight.
Except it's stated he was. 👆
Just cuz Maul landed a kick and Sidious "seemed angry" is irrelevant, since the exact same thing happened in their spar in TPM where Maul saw his master getting driven back desperately just to immediately get overwhelmed and realize: "Oh, this was a test, the dude held back and he's just now trying..."
Originally posted by MythLordThat's because the entire object of the exercise was for Sidious to test Maul and see if he would be willing to kill him. You can't claim the same for this fight.
Except it's stated he was. 👆Just cuz Maul landed a kick and Sidious "seemed angry" is irrelevant, since the exact same thing happened in their spar in TPM where Maul saw his master getting driven back desperately just to immediately get overwhelmed and realize: "Oh, this was a test, the dude held back and he's just now trying..."
Originally posted by MythLordsaying that Sidious toying with Maul is such a vague statement. He could've been toying with him just at the beginning and that statement would still stand. Maybe we should focus less on semantics and more on the actual fight and use our observational skills to see that Sidious was in-fact visibly stressed after Maul kicked him only to be pushed down during the bladelock.
Except it's stated he was. 👆Just cuz Maul landed a kick and Sidious "seemed angry" is irrelevant, since the exact same thing happened in their spar in TPM where Maul saw his master getting driven back desperately just to immediately get overwhelmed and realize: "Oh, this was a test, the dude held back and he's just now trying..."
Originally posted by ILS
That's because the entire object of the exercise was for Sidious to test Maul and see if he would be willing to kill him. You can't claim the same for this fight.
Sidious is a sadistic bastard as it is, his usual goal when fighting inferior foes(unless he's actually realizing they're threats and going all-out like Yoda or Vaapad! Mace) is just to goof around with them.
You cannot deny the parallels between Maul's test with Sidious near TPM and this fight, and it's possible just by comparing the two to deduce that Sheev wasn't trying against Maul.
Then StarWars.com, Filoni and Fact File come in and completely crush any ambiguity of Sidious holding back and practically confirm he's toying with Maul and he's barely tested.
Originally posted by Kurk
saying that Sidious toying with Maul is such a vague statement. He could've been toying with him just at the beginning and that statement would still stand. Maybe we should focus less on semantics and more on the actual fight and use our observational skills to see that Sidious was in-fact visibly stressed after Maul kicked him only to be pushed down during the bladelock.
Don't be retarded. Toying obviously means Sidious isn't trying his hardest, especially when you have sources like Fact File stating he was "barely tested". Your observational skills have Maul landing a kick on Sidious, which the latter likely just allowed since Filoni noted Palpatine is literally untouchable by Maul, and then Sidious laughing at him in a bladelock and disarming him? So that means Sidious is gonna be going all-out?
Hilarious.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
https://youtu.be/hwCeUYRRoRU?t=134Nope.
Originally posted by MythLordAnd you know what Sidious was doing before he started laughing? He was straining against Maul until he overpowered him through increased augmentation. Sidious also toyed with Mace and he ended up getting fu*ked for it as his opponents gained more momentum.
Sidious is a sadistic bastard as it is, his usual goal when fighting inferior foes(unless he's actually realizing they're threats and going all-out like Yoda or Vaapad! Mace) is just to goof around with them.
You cannot deny the parallels between Maul's test with Sidious near TPM and this fight, and it's possible just by comparing the two to deduce that Sheev wasn't trying against Maul.Then StarWars.com, Filoni and Fact File come in and completely crush any ambiguity of Sidious holding back and practically confirm he's toying with Maul and he's barely tested.
Don't be retarded. Toying obviously means Sidious isn't trying his hardest, especially when you have sources like Fact File stating he was "barely tested". Your observational skills have Maul landing a kick on Sidious, which the latter likely just allowed since Filoni noted Palpatine is literally untouchable by Maul, and then Sidious laughing at him in a bladelock and disarming him? So that means Sidious is gonna be going all-out?
Hilarious.
Originally posted by Kurk
And you know what Sidious was doing before he started laughing? He was straining against Maul until he overpowered him through increased augmentation. Sidious also toyed with Mace and he ended up getting fu*ked for it as his opponents gained more momentum.
It's confirmed he faked exhaustion/defeat at the hands of Mace, so he didn't end up getting fvked.
And straining? Just because he's scowling doesn't mean he's straining, lmao; otherwise Mace was strained in breaking bladelocks with Asajj Ventress... T
he fact that he overpowered Maul, and is confirmed to have been "barely tested" and "toying" while Maul is rage-amped completely invalidates your entire argument and just means Sidious pulled off his usual goofing around with opponents.
That isn't Sidious straining; this is: https://youtu.be/9DI8kkR9G0Q?t=150
Originally posted by MythLordThe difference is that the premise given for Sidious' intent in the Mandalore duel is that Maul and Savage are "threats" which he is personally dealing with, but in the [years and years before] TPM test we know that he was prepping Maul to become a Sith Lord.
[B]Sidious is a sadistic bastard as it is, his usual goal when fighting inferior foes(unless he's actually realizing they're threats and going all-out like Yoda or Vaapad! Mace) is just to goof around with them.
You cannot deny the parallels between Maul's test with Sidious near TPM and this fight, and it's possible just by comparing the two to deduce that Sheev wasn't trying against Maul.Then StarWars.com, Filoni and Fact File come in and completely crush any ambiguity of Sidious holding back and practically confirm he's toying with Maul and he's barely tested.
Sidious was clearly not at his most desperate hour and for most of the encounter was having a great time, but I can't really reconcile what Maul managed against him at the end.
Sidious was kicked earlier in the fight and laughed jovially. When Maul kicked him at the end he looked pissed. I would suggest that the summaries given for the fight refer to it by-and-large, i.e Sidious prolonging the duel early on, and toying with Maul with TK, and perhaps not referring to the part where Maul kicked Sidious and pissed him off. You have to sacrifice a degree of reasoning ability to use the quotes as a blanket statement for every single moment in the duel.
Originally posted by ILS
The difference is that the premise given for Sidious' intent in the Mandalore duel is that Maul and Savage are "threats" which he is personally dealing with, but in the [years and years before] TPM test we know that he was prepping Maul to become a Sith Lord.Sidious was clearly not at his most desperate hour and for most of the encounter was having a great time, but I can't really reconcile what Maul managed against him at the end.
Sidious was kicked earlier in the fight and laughed jovially. When Maul kicked him at the end he looked pissed. I would suggest that the summaries given for the fight refer to it by-and-large, i.e Sidious prolonging the duel early on, and toying with Maul with TK, and perhaps not referring to the part where Maul kicked Sidious and pissed him off. You have to sacrifice a degree of reasoning ability to use the quotes as a blanket statement for every single moment in the duel.
I think Sidious getting kicked by Maul, while not something Sidious allowed, is just because Sidious clearly wasn't going all-out which allowed Maul to tag him. I'll admit, Sidious got pissed off afterwards but then just after that he was laughing at Maul after disarming him.
The fact that SW.com, Fact File and Filoni all confirm Sidious as practically untouchable by Maul means Maul only landed a kick because Sidious at the time wasn't really fighting at his apex or close to it.
Originally posted by MythLordIs there anything to suggest Sidious was fighting complacently? I can get toying with someone, but not to the extent that you start letting yourself take hits. I think Maul just put up a decent fight that Sidious wasn't anticipating.
I think Sidious getting kicked by Maul, while not something Sidious allowed, is just because Sidious clearly wasn't going all-out which allowed Maul to tag him. I'll admit, Sidious got pissed off afterwards but then just after that he was laughing at Maul after disarming him.The fact that SW.com, Fact File and Filoni all confirm Sidious as practically untouchable by Maul means Maul only landed a kick because Sidious at the time wasn't really fighting at his apex or close to it.
Originally posted by ILS
Is there anything to suggest Sidious was fighting complacently? I can get toying with someone, but not to the extent that you start letting yourself take hits. I think Maul just put up a decent fight that Sidious wasn't anticipating.
The fact that Sheev wasn't anticipating it is exactly why Maul even tagged him. I mean, Dave said Sidious is untouchable to Maul and FactFile says he's barely been tested.
It just seems likely that Maul's kick was at a stage of the fight where Sidious obviously wasn't even beginning to tap into his reserves, but once he did... see the following bladelock.
I think we agree Sidious wasn't trying to annihilate Maul, which is why he did as well as he did. But at the same time, I would argue that there's plenty of people who, with the same circumstances, wouldn't have done as well as Maul.
One of them is Obi-Wan, just due to style. There's also people, like Savage, who are flat out not good enough.
Originally posted by ILS
I think we agree Sidious wasn't trying to annihilate Maul, which is why he did as well as he did. But at the same time, I would argue that there's plenty of people who, with the same circumstances, wouldn't have done as well as Maul.One of them is Obi-Wan, just due to style. There's also people, like Savage, who are flat out not good enough.
Well yeah, sure, but Maul is better than a vast majority of SW characters anyways. 👆