Well, as a Catholic, I never thought of myself as stupid (or forced to be believe in what I believe). I can certainly hold my own in a logical discussion. I understand the scientific method, am IMO pretty well read and realize the logical implausability of my religion if we base it solely on evidence-based deductive reasoning.
But don't let that stop you from forming generalized opinions on an entire group of ppl. Can't say I blame you. The loud ones do certainly make an impression.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Well, as a Catholic, I never thought of myself as stupid (or forced to be believe in what I believe). I can certainly hold my own in a logical discussion. I understand the scientific method, am IMO pretty well read and realize the logical implausability of my religion if we base it solely on evidence-based deductive reasoning.But don't let that stop you from forming generalized opinions on an entire group of ppl. Can't say I blame you. The loud ones do certainly make an impression.
I literally pointed out that it was a generalization in the OP. But that doesn't refute the statistical trend.
Originally posted by Surtur
The problem with intelligence, and especially of the young people in college is..they quite often mistake intelligence for wisdom.But it leads to all kinds of hilarious things.
There's also the danger of mistaking experience for wisdom. It seems like wisdom is some weighted combination of experience and intelligence - but even then, people sometimes try to apply general life wisdom to areas where it really doesn't matter. Wisdom plays a small role in your performance in math competitions, for instance.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I literally pointed out that it was a generalization in the OP. But that doesn't refute the statistical trend.
Statistical.trends vary by source and generally say a lot about who's pushing them.
Anti semite's push "statistical trends" about jewish domination of the media, for example.
Originally posted by cdtm
Statistical trends aren't hard math, though.
Um, yes they are. And they're responsible for a substantial portion of modern society, include quantum field theory, high frequency trading, engineering, actuarial science, etc.
And you're not exactly an unbiased source. All you do is attack conservative's here.
Nice ad hominem. A more competent thinker would have actually pointed out specific flaws in my methodology to discredit my statistical trends, instead of just dismissing all use of mathematics on face because you can find one example of someone making an arithmetic boo-boo. But strangely enough, you can't do that.
Liberals and conservatives both have equally viable philosophies. And no human person falls into a single category, everyone overlaps in some way or another. A healthy balance of government regulation is good, total socialism where govt controls everything is horrible. Elements of socialism where we get welfare for the neediest is good.
The ppl I have a problem with are the radical obstructionist republicans. And the democrats aren't helping much.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
There's also the danger of mistaking experience for wisdom. It seems like wisdom is some weighted combination of experience and intelligence - but even then, people sometimes try to apply general life wisdom to areas where it really doesn't matter. Wisdom plays a small role in your performance in math competitions, for instance.
Wisdom does play little part in math. But then math plays little part in being able to handle the real world. That is what these kids seem to struggle with.
Originally posted by Surtur
Wisdom does play little part in math. But then math plays little part in being able to handle the real world. That is what these kids seem to struggle with.
There's a difference between handling the real world on a practical, day to day basis, and "handling the real world" as in having a coherent ideology and political philosophy. The latter would ideally be dependent on empirical evidence and the scientific method, both of which are more heavily influenced by intellectual ability than "wisdom".
Originally posted by cdtm
Sorry, but:You framed the tone of this "debate" yourself.
Happy hunting troll.
Nice job with your ad hominem fallacies. You sound sooooo smart committing them.
No. Some of the most intelligent people I know are conservatives. It has more to do with personal experience than it does with intelligence.
For example, a worker that at one point perhaps lost his job for medical reasons and has had to rely on welfare services to keep afloat is likely more sympathetic to it than someone who was never in that situation. Alternatively, a police officer in a border state who deals with the worst of our immigrants on a daily basis may be less sympathetic to illegal immigration than someone who hasn't been exposed to that.
Originally posted by Surtur
The problem with intelligence, and especially of the young people in college is..they quite often mistake intelligence for wisdom.But it leads to all kinds of hilarious things.
The funny thing is, I was a LOT smarter in college if you base it solely on subjects such as science and math. As a freshman, I remember a time when I could easily multiply up to 3 rows of 3 digit numbers against each other just solely in my head. Numbers just flowed and "made sense" in my head. I could speed read a 300 page textbook in an hour or 2 and have an exceedingly high retention. My tested IQ was in the 140s.
I avoided drinking til I was in my senior year and was not in a relationship til after graduation (had a gf during high school but we broke up right before college). I barely had any friends, practically knew zero sports and, looking back, I was a bit of a condescending douche.
I also held onto a more liberal ideology when I was in college. Essentially, pro-choice (hated kids) and was more agnostic than Catholic.
Almost 20 years later and I can barely do 2 rows of 2 digits. My last IQ test scored barely in the mid 120s, speed reading is still there but retention/understanding is nowhere as close. Guess a few decades of heavy partying and drinking takes its toll. Not to mention stress from work and relationships.
But throughout all that, I feel that I have grown immensely and the me now is a far better me than I was 20 years ago. Experience has taught me how to patiently face complex real life problems and to deal with them when I can or adjust and accept them when I cannot (knowing full well that time may change the nature of the problem enough to solve it or give me new insights for a solution). The old me would practically implode when faced with a problem that I couldn't solve right away. I have far better social skills, I have empathy and a far better ability to accept conflicting views.
I am more conservative leaning these days and have, thru time and experience, reversed a lot of my old views.
I dunno, not sure if the older posters here have experienced something similar to this. But just thought I'd share.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
No. Some of the most intelligent people I know are conservatives. It has more to do with personal experience than it does with intelligence.For example, a worker that at one point perhaps lost his job for medical reasons and has had to rely on welfare services to keep afloat is likely more sympathetic to it than someone who was never in that situation. Alternatively, a police officer in a border state who deals with the worst of our immigrants on a daily basis may be less sympathetic to illegal immigration than someone who hasn't been exposed to that.
Anecdotes aside, the statistical correlation is pretty well replicated; it's not too much of a stretch to say that it may be causative.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
The funny thing is, I was a LOT smarter in college if you base it solely on subjects such as science and math. As a freshman, I remember a time when I could easily multiply up to 3 rows of 3 digit numbers against each other just solely in my head. Numbers just flowed and "made sense" in my head. I could speed read a 300 page textbook in an hour or 2 and have an exceedingly high retention. My tested IQ was in the 140s.I avoided drinking til I was in my senior year and was not in a relationship til after graduation (had a gf during high school but we broke up right before college). I barely had any friends, practically knew zero sports and, looking back, I was a bit of a condescending douche.
I also held onto a more liberal ideology when I was in college. Essentially, pro-choice (hated kids) and was more agnostic than Catholic.
Almost 20 years later and I can barely do 2 rows of 2 digits. My last IQ test scored barely in the mid 120s, speed reading is still there but retention/understanding is nowhere as close. Guess a few decades of heavy partying and drinking takes its toll. Not to mention stress from work and relationships.
But throughout all that, I feel that I have grown immensely and the me now is a far better me than I was 20 years ago. Experience has taught me how to patiently face complex real life problems and to deal with them when I can or adjust and accept them when I cannot (knowing full well that time may change the nature of the problem enough to solve it or give me new insights for a solution). The old me would practically implode when faced with a problem that I couldn't solve right away. I have far better social skills, I have empathy and a far better ability to accept conflicting views.
I am more conservative leaning these days and have, thru time and experience, reversed a lot of my old views.
I dunno, not sure if the older posters here have experienced something similar to this. But just thought I'd share.
Can you name one liberal position you once held that can be refuted by having better social skills/etc.?
Originally posted by Silent Master
There is the saying and I'm only paraphrasing.If you are not a Liberal at 25, you have no heart. If you are not a Conservative at 35 you have no brain.
nope. it's actually "if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains" (swimming with sharks).
nice try tho