Tenebrous and Plagueis vs Revan and Novel Vitiate

Originally posted by Nephthys
Casually smashed through a giant blast door like it's made of paper, while weakened? A blast door designed to contained explosions just like the one Tenebrous blocked? And is like the size of a house and a meter thick?

But even if you somehow think that's less impressive than blocking the tailend of an explosion after running away from it for a while, 'Thor also smashed through a Rakatan vault door deemed impenetrable. In the same game that casually has mountain-busting bombs.

"A possible edge of Vitiate in Dark Side Mastery"?

I feel people fail to grasp that Vitiate literally sat in a room for over one-thousand years honing and mastering his dark side abilities after consuming the power of eight-thousand of the galaxy's "most powerful" Sith Lords. Thus, Vitiate would be capable of wielding his power to the absolute maximum efficiency. Take Kyp Durron for example: almost unparalleled power, but lacks the mastery to use it effectively in combat. But Vitiate? That's his specialty.

to address the other points, Revan's edge in CQC was irrelevant in battle against Vitiate - I fail to see how Darth Plagueis, who is inferior dueling accomplishments and acclaim than Revan, would then do better

Also, the gap between Vitiate in Revan to SWTOR is unquantifiable to the extent that I'm not even sure he grew more powerful - just diverted his resources and became more masterful in the art of Essence Transfer and telepathy.

So, your blind speculation that since Plagueis is ever so slightly greater than Vitiate, that he must be capable of besting novel Vitiate faster than Revan can *dominate* Tenebrous is absurd.

Yeah, but how can he use that in a battle?

But, since you seem to love quotes so much:

"Yoda's knowledge of the Force makes him just as powerful as Darth Sidious."

Thus, Vitiate's greater mastery will allow his combat-applicable abilities to rival that of Darth Plagueis.

At the very least, it will allow him to contend with Plagueis longer than Revan can defeat Tenebrous, which is what you're disputing.

So, that Revan, on a Darkside Nexus that even influenced Luke Skywalker thousands of years later, didn't could beat Vitate is a proof that Plagueis couldn't do the same? Lolwut? Against Revan Vitiate had a power advantadge- against Plagueis it is the other way around.

Again, these points I'm making aren't that difficult to grasp. For one, let's remember that Revan and Vitiate are almost equals - same goes for Plagueis and Vitiate, as established below. Despite that, Revan's CQC advantage failed to play any role in the confrontation. Vitiate proved capable of charging up his telekinesis as Revan rushed him, and then unleashed it when Revan went to strike. The same can be done with Darth Plagueis with the same result.

Also, I fail to see how Revan is the better duelist. Obviously Plagueis lacks in feats, but Plagueis has superior speed, strenght, etc. Then he outdueled Venamis, someone powerful in the Force to not get overwhelmed by Plaggy, who was trained in Plagueis' style should make him superior to Revan.

This is where the irony kicks in. You were laughing at my comparison, but then state that Plagueis dueling Venamis is impressive because Venamis wasn't dominated in the Force by Darth Plagueis? The rest of your point isn't even coherent, so I have no clue what you're trying to get out there.

He also should share at least somewhat of a parity to TPM Sidious, who stomped Maul.

What encounter are you referring to? The one where Darth Maul was injured and exhausted after days of battle and yet sources state that he still came close to killing Palpatine? I imagine that's not what you want to be citing here.

I don't think that Vitiate didn't grew in 300 years. That's absurd, tbh. Also, why should he suddenly be more powerful as Valkorion, then?

You said oneshot Tenebrous pre-Edit, or?
And no, it's not absurd. What is absurd is the lowballing of Tenebrous. The Barrier feat is really impressive(and tbh, more impressive than 'Thors feat), but even if you think that Cade and co. have better feats, that doesn't mean that he is weak. He is 30 generations superior to Bane, nd should logically be closer to RotS Sidious, or at least Plagueis, thn to him, because it doesn't makes sense that the growth of one-generation > the growth of 29 generations.
So, 'Brous being one-shotted by the likes of Revan or Novel Vitate is IMO absurd.

For one, you made the claim that Plagueis could beat Vitiate faster than Revan could beat Tenebrous.

That is the claim from which this discussion is based.

Given how you haven't mentioned it again, I imagine you now look at things differently, which is good.

Since you love those alleged power quotes, though, let's take a look at Revan's:

- Revan is "more powerful" than any Jedi before him, which includes Ulic-Qel Droma, has ever "dreamed" of

- Revan is "more powerful" than what Darth Nox and the Emperor's Wrath have "imagined" possible

- Revan is "far more powerful" than Darth Nihilus, a planet-nomming, fleet-lifting dark side entity

So really, I doubt you really want to bring up the power-growth of generations, since Revan has that beat.

And so then we're left with a comparison of feats, and we know how that ends...

I'll respond tomorrow.

This is ridiculous. Zannah as a child has feats surpassing kid Vitiate's feats. Tenebrous gets scaling from this hundredfold:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111205740/4939004-1979052835-scree.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111205740/4939005-7026279895-scree.jpg

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111205740/5207916-screen+shot+2016-05-14+at+4.49.37+pm.png

And from this:

Barricaded within the walls of a bastion he and his Twi’lek apprentice, Gean, had constructed on Jaguada, he had attempted as much, and was thought to have destroyed more than half the repository of artifacts before Gean, demonstrating consummate will and courage, had managed to penetrate the Force fields Gravid had raised around their stronghold and intercede, killing her Master with her bare hands, though at the cost of her arm, shoulder, and the entire left side of her face and chest.

-Darth Plagueis

So why are we still talking about some mining feat like it's the best that he can do?

Also, I am wondering how exactly was Revan CQC useless when he came centimeters away from slicing Vitiate in half, but then blasted backwards by Vitiate's charged TK, only to recover mid-air with no injury whatsoever? And in Scourge's vision, a team Revan, Meetra, and Scourge himself had roughly 50/50 chance against Vitiate. Keep in mind that this is an injured Revan who was one-shot by Vitiate with a single lightning bolt. So I wonder how could he beat Vitiate when he's so utterly outclassed in Force power, if not with CQC?

Lmfao. I'm fairly certain many individual's survived the world-razing without even using the Force (ex. many of the green balls, many of the Jedi, etc.).

And the second feat isn't a literal Force shield around it. It's an energy shield that's protecting the stronghold.

Originally posted by Azronger
So I wonder how could he beat Vitiate when he's so utterly outclassed in Force power

Az's straw grasping is cute.

Tenebrous is outmatched here. His feats are rather shitty for his vaunted placement, and scaling from Bane isn't gonna get him much as Vitiate and Revan shits on Bane, too.

This is ridiculous. Zannah as a child has feats surpassing kid Vitiate's feats. Tenebrous gets scaling from this hundredfold:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...52835-scree.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...79895-scree.jpg

http://static1.comicvine.com/upload...+4.49.37+pm.png

Its a nice bit feat

Then you remember the ****ers she murdered survived the same shit even closer to the epicenter than she was and realize her showing is par for the course in an age you ****ers tout as weak *shrugs*

When powerscaling fodder survives the fallout (in a much more impressive fashion too), is this really something you want to appeal to?

It is magnitudes better than anything Tenebrous has demonstrated though

But Tenebrous' feats suck and wholly rely on powerscaling for him to be any kind of meaningful combatant *shrugs*

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Its a nice bit feat

Then you remember the ****ers she murdered survived the same shit even closer to the epicenter than she was and realize her showing is par for the course in an age you ****ers tout as weak *shrugs*

When powerscaling fodder survives the fallout (in a much more impressive fashion too), is this really something you want to appeal to?

The Force storm happened (which is when Zannah shielded herself), Kaan broke off the Force storm, Bane ****ed the fleet over, Kaan came back to talk to Bane and decided to use the Thought Bomb, Kaan went with the other Sith into the caves, the Jedi found out what was happening and decided to send 300 Jedi down there with Hoth, the Thought Bomb got detonated, then Zannah tried to find peeps and the Jedi started hunting down bouncers who were driven mad by the thought bomb (which is when Zannah killed the Jedi).

A lot of shit happened between Zannah's encounter with the Storm and her encounter with the Jedi, so they didn't survive that shit.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Zannah didn't encounter those two Jedi until long after the Force storm, so no, they didn't survive the same shit.

She was walking towards the epicenter

Towards Bane

She encountered the Jedi traveling in the direction opposite to her sniping her ball friend's crazed species post holocaust

They were all an unknown distance from the epicenter, true, but they were no further from it than her at least, and likely closer based on context

@ Urs

Originally posted by Nephthys
Casually smashed through a giant blast door like it's made of paper, while weakened? A blast door designed to contain explosions just like the one Tenebrous blocked? And is like the size of a house and a meter thick?

But even if you somehow think that's less impressive than blocking the tailend of an explosion after running away from it for a while, 'Thor also smashed through a Rakatan vault door deemed impenetrable. In the same game that casually has mountain-busting bombs.

And then there's Jadus' feat of protecting the Dominator from being incinerated. And Revan tanking the backlash of an attack that would decimate a kilometer wide area. And y'know, Vitiate wiping out planets.

Needless to say, Tenebrous is kind of out of his depth.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
She was walking towards the epicenter

Towards Bane

She encountered the Jedi traveling in the direction opposite to her sniping her ball friend's crazed species post holocaust

They were all an unknown distance from the epicenter, true, but they were no further from it than her at least, and likely closer based on context

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I edited my post.

Sure

Kaan called off the storm

Still passed over a group of Jedi and Sith before that happened

And they were demonstrated to have survived without a barrier

He can call it off as much as he wants, fact of the matter is?

It already ravaged an area with Jedi and Sith occupying the space by the time he had, indicating the energy was already exerted on them

The point of my post isn't to call the feat unimpressive

Frankly, its better than most things demonstrated in the PT era sans Yarael Poof's feat and maybe Yoda destroying those Carrier Ships assuming they had shields up

Comes with the whole "this will raze the world" sort of shit

But absolute nothings lived through it, so why discuss powerscaling when just about anyone benefits?

That barrier feat was for the Force storm, not the thought bomb

I know

Also, not even sure how to gauge the Thought Bomb as the energy exerted was unconventionally exerted and they were an ambiguous distance from the epicenter (and don't think I haven't tried correcting the ambiguity for the Force Storm and Thought Bomb, Drew wouldn't give me a definitive answer *shrugs*)

and a lot of shit happened between Zannah's barrier feat and her encounter with the Jedi so you can't prove they shielded themselves from the storm

We see both Jedi and Sith survived the Fallout in an area that has fallout

Barring being on the other side of the planet/thousands of kilometer away from Zannah?

You're splitting hairs at the order of energy they had to eat to live *shrugs*

Originally posted by Nephthys
A blast door designed to contain explosions just like the one Tenebrous blocked?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For one, let's remember that Revan and Vitiate are almost equals

Originally posted by Beniboybling
This is interesting, source?

The quest log refers to it as a blast door. What a blast door is is self-explanatory.

Yeah I was looking for some information of the level of "blast" it can endure.

But I guess that was just conjecture, never mind then.

😆

Oh Beni, never change.

It's massive and massively thick. The obvious conclusion is that it is at least equal to the task of blocking the tail-end of an explosion that has already traveled very far and lost much of its kinetic energy. Even assuming not for some absurd reason, 'Thor did it at the start of her career, while weakened, with a single hand, casually.

Do I need to spell out the immense difference between that and what Revan can put out?

Not to mention the rest of my post stands unchallenged.

No that's just conjecture. I mean really the sum of your argument is "its a massively massive door and therefore can tank massively massive explosions!"

Retarded yeah.

Regardless the explosion was potent enough to flood a mine the size of several catherdals in seconds, if that, which is probably more than the Barensthor could ever hope to output, and would have unlikely been diminished by much of a degree considering the speed at which it was travelling, and the minimal resistance it would have met.

More to the point it the kinetic buffet alone was enough to knock Plagueis on his ass, and Tenebrous capably warded it off while suspending massive slabs from the ceiling.