Tenebrous and Plagueis vs Revan and Novel Vitiate

1. But you don't, so my argument is still valid against you unless you want to contradict yourself. It's also apples and oranges, we saw that they had plenty of time to react unlike with Plagueis and were actively facing a foe who had possibly already attacked them once. There's no mention of him forming a barrier and given that Tenebrous did so, no reason to suspect he couldn't were he to similarly attempt it.

2. The scale is irrelevant, it still exists as an example that proves my point about how an entire cave network can be easily destabilized in such a manner.

@Ant Was the accolade of Revan being above any Jedi before him as of the MW?

The one I'm citing here is from the Foundry.

Here's a way to calculate the increase in power of the average Banite Sith: Take the gap between Valkorion and Bane, and divide it by 30.

And until someone refutes what Ellimist said, Plagueis remains stronger than Valkorion and stating opinions, whining, b-itching, and moaning about it isn't changing that.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Tenebrous is shit?

His feats are, yes.

What straws are there to grasp? Sourcebooks say Banite scaling is legit and the weakest member of the entire line (at that moment) can tank army busting attacks.

Because Vitiate and Revan are above Bane by a ludicrously large amount, too? Hell, I can make a case Vitiate is more or less equal, if not above, Bane before the Nethama ritual: knowledge = power, and the ability to completely such a complex rituals shows a significant degree of understanding ad mastery of the Force, and we all know the raw power is there. After absorbing the power of thousands of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy, and the entire planet, he is above Bane by an utterly unholy amount. Quite frankly, beyond 100 fold. And Revan is someone that can challenge him (Vitiate) in unfavorable circumstances, proving the huge gap between him and Bane, too.

As for Zannah taking army busting attacks, Vitiate and Revan benefit from ridiculous scaling as well from other characters they are factually far, far, far above [E.I. Thon, and for Vitiate, if authorial intent is anything to go by, Darth Nihilus as well] - so I'm not getting why you think that is gonna be his claim to fame over the TOR group.

After absorbing the power of thousands of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy, and the entire planet

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
After absorbing the power of thousands of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy, and the [b]entire planet, he is above Bane by an utterly unholy amount. Quite frankly, beyond 100 fold. [/B]

Originally posted by ILS
Maybe the whole experience of doing the thing lead Tenebrae to a power growth, but he didn't literally gain the power of 8000 Sith and a planet. He gained their life force which prolonged his life to an unnatural length. You can only be as powerful as the amount of Midichlorians you have, since that is how Force users channel the Force - and the only person who has ever increased his own is Plagueis.

Fair enough. I'd concede a significant amount of the Force energy consumed went toward granting his conditional immortality, but we do know for a fact, per TOR Encyclopedia that the ritual "vastly increased his capacity" as a Force user. The keyword here being "capacity" which, via the definition of the word, implies an increase to the amount of something one can hold, or contain.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol look a me ma with my complete conjecture!

Seriously, babe --- the arbitrary "100 fold" was never supposed to be taken at face value.

Point is, via hype and holistic intent, and feats: Vitiate is vastly above Bane.

but a sourcebook says Bane > Vitiate

Some sources say Bastila = Dooku.

But we ignore what we dislike around these parts, and latch on what we do like. 😂

That source has been debunked.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Some sources say Bastila = Dooku.

But we ignore what we dislike around these parts, and latch on what we do like. 😂

We ignore it, because we are educated about its context.

https://sites.google.com/site/assfrancstarwarsmini/presentation-du-jeu/d-les-figurines/preview/set-5-champions-of-the-force/preview-6a

Now you are educated, too. You're welcome.

Glad to see support for Bane > Vitiate. 👆

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Because Vitiate and Revan are above Bane by a ludicrously large amount, too? Hell, I can make a case Vitiate is more or less equal, if not above, Bane before the Nethama ritual: knowledge = power, and the ability to completely such a complex rituals shows a significant degree of understanding ad mastery of the Force, and we all know the raw power is there. After absorbing the power of thousands of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy, and the [b]entire planet, he is above Bane by an utterly unholy amount. Quite frankly, beyond 100 fold. And Revan is someone that can challenge him (Vitiate) in unfavorable circumstances, proving the huge gap between him and Bane, too.

Vitiate can design a ritual in theory. But the fact that he required 8000 additional participants to pull it off in practise basically debunks your entire case of his knowledge translating to personal Force power. And as has been mentioned in this thread, which you conceded to, the ritual didn't increase his personal Force power, only his potential. And then there's the fact that he's factually inferior to Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow at this point. And Ludo is just... lmao.

As for how much he attained of that potential - unquantifiable. Novel Vitiate, aside from beating DC members under unknown circumstances - a feat he has never ever replicated I might add - is essentially a featless character. His only claim to fame is scaling from Revan, which is hypocritical as hell for the Tenebrous haters/Vitiate wankers to be lowballing Tenebrous because of a lack of feats. Well, actually, logically Vitiate shouldn't get any sort of scaling from Revan given that he's only ever defeated the latter on one of the most powerful dark side nexi there is. He's featsless on neutral ground.

And the scaling Revan gets from Bane is laughable compared to Tenebrous'. So we're back to arguing from feats.

As for Zannah taking army busting attacks, Vitiate and Revan benefit from ridiculous scaling as well from other characters they are factually far, far, far above [E.I. Thon, and for Vitiate, if authorial intent is anything to go by, Darth Nihilus as well] - so I'm not getting why you think that is gonna be his claim to fame over the TOR group.

The only scaling Vitiate gets is from someone whose only feat is killing herself with her own attack. 😆

Revan is genuinely a powerhouse, though, but he doesn't compare in the slightest to Banite scaling.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Glad to see support for Bane > Vitiate. 👆

...what?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Which still doesn't diminish it as an extreme showing of Force mastery?

It doesn't, but I'm not sure why finesse is relevant

It's not like you're discussing something straight forward like TK

You're discussing more abstract shit where what is impressive is more difficult to gauge

Is sensing midichlorians more impressive than being able to sense individual people from across the galaxy? Both are essentially finding a needle in a haystack

You could say that of every character given what the likes of Rivi-Anu have been able to accomplish.

Not every character, but her feat is certainly one of the better ones

I admit Tenebrous could obviously use more and better showings, but he's a supporting character and what we have for him is pretty good. He certainly doesn't belong down in the dumps like a number of people here pretend.

He isn't down in the dumps though?

He has the accolades, thus receives powerscaling

Think of it like Dragon Ball

Most of their feats suck, especially in the manga (Frankly, Super's feats suck too, but they have a higher ratio of stand out feats to bit feats than the manga did so far). I can count on 1 hand the number of feats worth actually discussing in a thread based on narrative context

An individual character's feats aren't important so much as who you can play connect the dots with them too

Whereas you can eyeball Revan being one-shotted by Vitiate's Lightning and calculate that he absorbed 97% of the Lightning?

Their should have been ashes *shrugs*

All he was left with is burns

For the feat to play out like it did, he needs to negate most of the attack's energy for his body to still be a body. His incredibly human, without the Force protecting it, body

I don't like half the things I look at, I generally find them stupid

My beliefs are irrelevant though, I work with what I see on screen/panel/page

Letting my own biases get in the way of that already ruins this disfunctional hobby before I can even take part in it *shrugs*

You might want to consider the ease and immediacy of Tenebrous' feat (I assume you're referring to the Barrier one) before you go around claiming about how shit it is.

Its an impressive reaction

I'm just underwhelmed by the circumstance

Were he closer to the epicenter accomplishing it, it'd still be a bit feat, but it would be one of the better bit feats in the setting

I'm pretty sure you can tell from my Dragon Ball example how I go about judging fiction in general *shrugs*

Obviously he could use more, but just dismissing them on the basis of them sucking isn't enough. Not when most of the characters who are supported here don't have showings of that caliber to begin with. And that's kind of my point. Tenebrous' showings alone would actually put him above the shit-tier that half of the people have him in.

It's not like I'm calling the character weak

Like I've made evident above with my Dragon Ball comparison?

I just think focusing on his actual feats to demonstrate his power when he has powerscaling going for him is a waste of your time *shrugs*

Maybe because Jedi and Sith don't get knocked over as easily as regular humans?

Would probably depend on how ready Plagueis was to endure Tenebrous rushing into to determine if this is a strength feat worth considering

Maybe because they weren't actually hit by the storm? Is it ever shown that they just waded through the storm without a Barrier and emerged unscathed?

Well, a barrier would have been pretty obvious with how the comic showed Zannah's

No green patch of grass was around where any of them lived

Hell, IIRC, a few ended up buried under some ashes before emerging

Fact of the matter is though? By virtue of being in a location that was hit by the Storm and the fallout stretched to the horizon from where they were?

They were hit by it too long before Kaan called it off *shrugs*

If someone has the comic on hand to check, that'd be cool though

How on earth does this change the fact that it was doing the things I mentioned [b]when it hit Tenebrous? [/B]

Because it's not like Tenebrous was being hit by the full force of the explosion destroying the mine

Think of an explosion, like I hinted at with 4PIr^2, as an ever expanding spherical surface area

Per square meter such and such energy sits upon it. Starting from ground zero is where the highest concentration of energy starts.

What happens as the surface area expands? The concentration of energy diminishes rather rapidly.

The amount of energy hitting Tenebrous is limited to whatever the size of his barrier's surface area was divided by the surface area of the expanding explosion at time of impact

Bowling over Plagueis is... nice? But strength feats in Star Wars, even at their best, are markedly beneath their more magical attacks. Every time you have a force user swing a lightsaber at a TKed object? It's muddied by the fact a Lightsaber's cutting power isn't reliant on the ****er's own striking strength due to the sheer intensity of the blade.

This is something I'd be happy to be wrong on though, the sheer disconnect between upper bound strength feats and their best magic annoys me as I currently perceive it

Well, Ant, Deronn? You responding or not?

Obviously.

But getting my hands on a computer as been a tough task lately.

Why people don't simply use mobile phones is beyond me.