Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova👆
👆Sunrazer's double standards are LEGENDary.
Originally posted by UrsumelesSomewhere in our exchange on either page 2 or 3 he brings up that author quotes can't be counted, which I counter.http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=637177&pagenumber=2
Could you quote the post with the Double Standarts?
Originally posted by darthbane77
👆Somewhere in our exchange on either page 2 or 3 he brings up that author quotes can't be counted, which I counter.http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=637177&pagenumber=2
"I'm not any kind of official expert or authority on Star Wars. I wrote some books for them, but I don't get to say what is or isn't canon or official or anything like that. [...] That's why I'm reluctant to answer questions like this; because even with all these caveats it's inevitable that fans will give my opinion more weight than it's worth. So, to sum up, I told you my opinion, but it doesn't have any real weight, importance or authority."
-Drew Karpyshyn
🙂
Originally posted by darthbane77
I just had this same debate with Ant on Facebook actually, I interpreted the text as meaning something difference based on other things that have occurred in the mythos that are similar to Sidious' killing of Plagueis. This is what I told Ant, part of what I told him anyway."That's testament to his strength in the Force. Likewise, "skill and ability to do so" doesn't necessarily mean Palpatine was superior. Luke bested Vader without being superior to him, Zannah bested Bane without (arguably) being superior to him. It simple suggests that Sidious, by that point, had acquired the means to be able to kill Plagueis. Not that Sidious was actually superior. More like a "I've learned a lot from you but I can take it from here" kind of thing."
Also, I don't wanna be rude, but it's ridiculous how you(and Syn)moan about Nova's Double Standarts, only to say then:
> Valkorion is > Plagueis/RotS Sidious, because the canonical source isn't backed up by feats!
> An author says, Plagueis > TPM Sidious, and another says D. Revan would beat Traya and the Exile together, so it's true!
Originally posted by UrsumelesYeah I didn't mention the author quotes there at all.
I meant this, but you don't talk about author statement being true here *shrug*Also, I don't wanna be rude, but it's ridiculous how you(and Syn)moan about Nova's Double Standarts, only to say then:
> Valkorion is > Plagueis/RotS Sidious, because the canonical source isn't backed up by feats!
> An author says, Plagueis > TPM Sidious, and another says D. Revan would beat Traya and the Exile together, so it's true!
I take a mixed approach when dealing with author quotes and most accolades. Some can be taken at face value, but there are others that need substantiation. For example, the Plagueis quote has substantiation to back it in the form of feats, where as anything suggesting that TPM Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, does not; as comparing feats between TPM Sidious and the likes of Plagueis of Vitiate make it obvious that Plagueis and Vitiate were above Sheev at that point in time.
Originally posted by SelenialYour evidence against author quotes is an author quote......and people wonder why this forum is shit.
"I'm not any kind of official expert or authority on Star Wars. I wrote some books for them, but I don't get to say what is or isn't canon or official or anything like that. [...] That's why I'm reluctant to answer questions like this; because even with all these caveats it's inevitable that fans will give my opinion more weight than it's worth. So, to sum up, I told you my opinion, but it doesn't have any real weight, importance or authority."
[B]-Drew Karpyshyn🙂 [/B]
Originally posted by darthbane77
Yeah I didn't mention the author quotes there at all.I take a mixed approach when dealing with author quotes and most accolades. Some can be taken at face value, but there are others that need substantiation. For example, the Plagueis quote has substantiation to back it in the form of feats, where as anything suggesting that TPM Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, does not; as comparing feats between TPM Sidious and the likes of Plagueis of Vitiate make it obvious that Plagueis and Vitiate were above Sheev at that point in time.
Yeah, based on feats Traya & Exile > D. Revan, lol.
TPM Sidious literally stomping Maul, and being holistically portrayed as his masters equal, should be enough to put him above Plaggy after a huge powergrowth.
I also more meant the Plaggy > Vitiate quote.
Originally posted by UrsumelesWhat? I'm the one USING the author quote. Why would I say it can't be used when it's one of my major tools? Author quotes should be considered, if not contradicted by anything 100% undeniable.
You just said, that you countered that Author quotes shouldn't be counted, so youmseem to believe that they should be counted.Yeah, based on feats Traya & Exile > D. Revan, lol.
TPM Sidious literally stomping Maul, and being holistically portrayed as his masters equal, should be enough to put him above Plaggy after a huge powergrowth.
I also more meant the Plaggy > Vitiate quote.
I never actually said I subscribed to the Darth Revan>Traya+Surik quote. Mostly because it doesn't hold up, but if one subscribes to the Mando Wars Revan>Nihilus quote then that would also be true (not saying I believe that quote either, not as far as Mando Wars Revan is concerned anyway.)
TPM Sheev has no feats to support superiority to Plagueis. I do they the two were relatively close in power, but with Plagueis as the superior.
Everybody well knows I don't consider back cover blurbs canon, which I told SunRazer.
A quote applies absolutely always unless it's contradicted by feats. And no, having inferior feats to someone isn't a contradiction in itself, unless both characters' limits have been clearly defined and the one with a quote backing him up is still inferior.
For example: Valkorion has planetary feats, yet Plagueis does not. Plagueis, however, has a quote declaring him the strongest Sith ever and he has never been pushed to his limits, or even close to it, really. Dismissing the quote because of a lack of feats on Plagueis' part is a fallacy and results in automatic concession.
This does not apply to opinions of course, be they from a KMC user or from an author.
Originally posted by Selenial
"I'm not any kind of official expert or authority on Star Wars. I wrote some books for them, but I don't get to say what is or isn't canon or official or anything like that. [...] That's why I'm reluctant to answer questions like this; because even with all these caveats it's inevitable that fans will give my opinion more weight than it's worth. So, to sum up, I told you my opinion, but it doesn't have any real weight, importance or authority."
[B]-Drew Karpyshyn🙂 [/B]
A revealing quote. It would seem to me that an opinion that an author gives to a fan question and what is legitimately considered canon and thus is applicable to scaling a character's performance in a hypothetical battle are two different things.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I think we're all aware that there's an inherent difference between an author clarifying THEIR OWN work and giving an opinion on general canon or other events within continuity.
Ok, can you give an example? The most notable examples I've seen of author quotes being used to substantiate positions are hypothetical battle questions posed to authors, like Revan vs the Exile and Traya for Avellone, or Plaguies vs Sidous for Luceno. The only instance that I can remember an author quote was used to clarify a work was Veitch saying that Sidious couldn't control his force storms, which people immediately denied as it contradicted other canon sources. Drew's clarification provided in the quote Selenial provided was interesting to me.
I guess Lucas clarifying things in his commentaries is an example now that I think about it. But Lucas was the owner and creator of Star Wars, so his input on things like the Prequel Trilogy being the "Golden Age" and all that seems credible because he invented the universe to begin? Does that seem hypocritical?