Originally posted by Darth ThorThen don't get on a high horse and claim you've repeatedly explained it when you haven't even countered my points, you ****ing idiot. I wasn't saying no response = concession, but if you haven't responded to my points, don't go on a different thread later and say "lol I've repeatedly explained this to you".
I'm sorry, I sometimes lose track of threads I'm posting on. It happens you know. Doesn't mean I conceded the point, as we're still talking about it. So who gives a damn about the other thread Lol
Originally posted by Darth Thor"Urm", I implied Filoni's word is still extremely relevant, and is especially relevant in regards to Ahsoka and Star Wars Rebels.
Urm... did you really just imply nothing has changed since Disney took over LMAO
Originally posted by Darth ThorLet me explain this to you. Filoni is pretty high up in the food chain in Lucasfilm, especially in regards to animation, and he is entrusted with overseeing all of Lucasfilm animation. He created Ahsoka, he worked on both TCW and Rebels, and so he has an understanding of literally everyone in the OT (Sidious, Vader, Kenobi, Ahsoka, Maul) bar Luke, writing-wise (and by extension, obviously combat-wise). His commentary on the combat levels on the show he is working on is pretty relevant, because we base these forum discussions on fights that happen in the show, and what happens in the show is canon. If Filoni implies Ahsoka is superior in the show, then that was the intention, and we should put stock into that implication. If Filoni made some statement regarding Luke Skywalker’s combat level in RotJ, I’d be far less inclined to take it seriously, because you know what? Filoni hasn’t written Luke or worked on a show with him.
Let me explain this to you. Lucas used to be Mr. Canon. Filoni used to go on about "Lucas said this and that", and was the only spokesman out there for a while regarding actual Lucas canon. So yeah I used to cling to his words more. But now Canon is a much more complex thing, and no one guy dictates it. At most we take his commentary on the series he works on seriously. But that doesn't mean he gets power to declare Ahsoka as the no.3 person in the whole of the OT era LMAO
Originally posted by Darth Thor🙄
And frankly only a fanboy would cling to such a vague implication.
Originally posted by Darth ThorYou act as if I give a shit whether Savage is above the B-Team or not? As if I have an agenda that Filoni's quote regarding Savage damages? Disputing the legitimacy of a quote by applying context to it isn't a double standard, Jesus Christ.
If however I'm taking his word RIGHT NOW when it suits me, but IGNORING them RIGHT NOW when it doesn't, then that would be Double Standards.
If I was having a double standard, it would be if I thought Filoni's Ahsoka quote was legitimate, and then Filoni comes out saying "Maul is better than Ahsoka", and I ignore it. That's a double standard. Disregarding the Savage / B-Team quote is not a double standard when you factor in other circumstances that weren't covered, i.e Sidious holding back.
I've never disputed the validity of Filoni's commentary, merely your interpretation of it. The validity of Filoni's word is a non-issue to our disagreement since I'm only disagreeing with your interpretation of Filoni's statement rather than the statement itself, and you've managed to blow the false notion that I reject the validity of Filoni's word as some sort of double standard way out of proportion and it's pretty ****ing hilarious honestly.
Originally posted by Darth ThorLikewise; you're pretty stupid.
Jeez I'm glad I'm not your teacher.
Originally posted by Darth ThorSo, just to make this clear, if Filoni said, straight up, that Ahsoka was better than Maul, you wouldn't think that was grounds enough to think Ahsoka was > Maul in canon? I’ve explained why Filoni’s implications and / or statements should be taken seriously.
Yes, but an implication is hardly a canon fact. And neither is Filoni's word equal to that of what Lucas's word was in the past. So I will call you out on both fronts every time you try to act like it's Canon now that Ahsoka > Maul.
Originally posted by Darth ThorOh my god.
Jeez you are all over the place aren't you. Just a few paragraphs up you're sucking up to his stature in Lucasfilm, his Knowledge of the characters, story and Canon, and now suddenly you only put stock into his OWN IDEAS and OWN CHARACTERS.Okay cool. Glad we got that cleared. So tell me, whose character is Savage? Lmao
Listen to me. Read this carefully and thoroughly. Take your time.
I do not take the Savage quote into consideration because the quote itself does not cover the context of the fight.
Filoni does not say Savage is superior to the B-Team.
Filoni says Savage performed better than the B-Team.
But you have to add in other factors in order to fully comprehend the full picture.
Factors with the RotS fight:
>Sidious caught B-Team off guard
>Sidious was in a bloodlusted frenzy, pulling no punches
Factors with the Savage fight:
>Savage was completely prepared to fight
>Sidious has a completely casual demeanor
Please, Darth Thor. Filoni saying Savage did better against Sidious in completely different circumstances than the B-Team proves nothing, and me disputing the quote is not evidence of a double standard, even if I'm wrong and Filoni is meaning what you’re saying. The Ahsoka quote and the Savage quote are not similar, therefore accepting one and disputing the other is not a double standard.
Originally posted by Darth ThorSure buddy
I get that's true in your head yeah. But I'm afraid it's called DENIAL.
Originally posted by Darth ThorYou despise critical thinking because you can't even comprehend how my criticism of the Savage quote and my support for the Ahsoka quote differ. But I've explained that.
So a mega mega fan of Ahsoka clings to Filoni implying Ahsoka > Maul and takes it as canon fact. Then I challenge that but it's apparently me who despises critical thinking.
Originally posted by Darth ThorUh, I didn't say Savage didn't perform better, I said if he did, it was because of Sidious's demeanor.
Ah so Filoni DIRECTLY saying Savage performed better than the B-Team, doesn't mean Savage performed better than the B-Team due to outside factors.
Originally posted by Darth ThorI’ll ask you again: What external factors?
But Filoni IMPLYING Ahsoka > Maul, means just that. Screw any external factors that might be present right?
Originally posted by Darth ThorI’m learning more and more that you’re mentally handicapped and you should qualify for government benefits.
Are we learning what Double Standards are yet?
Originally posted by Darth ThorSome things to consider:
As for Sidious holding back, I'm pretty sure Filoni was aware of that, and yet he still Specifically Credited Savage for doing better than the B-Team. He didn't put it down to Sidious screwing around.
>The B-Team was caught off guard
>Savage was already fighting Sidious before Maul was KO’d, so he was more combat ready than the B-Team
>Sidious didn’t opt for an offensive blitz, he casually avoided Savage’s offensive at first and took his time
So basically, Savage did perform better, but it was because of various circumstances that you can’t ignore. Just because Filoni didn’t say “lol but Savage only did that well bc sidious was screwing around” doesn’t mean we don’t factor in Sidious’s mindset. Everything doesn’t have to be completely explicit.
Originally posted by Darth ThorWhy would Sidious randomly attack him seriously during the fight? Sidious was ****ing around the entire fight and took his time.
You're telling me it's not even possible now that 4-5 strikes of Sidious's against Savage in the entire 2 vs 1 duel might have been full on serious attacks?
Originally posted by Darth Thor“Filoni is just biased!” is not an argument, sorry.
Yes because Filoni isn't capable of Bias on a character he's admittedly biased towards Lmao
Originally posted by Darth Thor
No that is your Primary piece of "evidence" to state Ahsoka > Maul.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
There is no other evidence.
Originally posted by Darth ThorShe was the only one to make offensive headway in the fight and there’s plenty of evidence suggesting the dark siders were amped.
She couldn't overpower him on Malachor (and you've yet to prove he was amped).
Originally posted by Darth ThorZero proof whatsoever.
In fact it's far more likely it was Maul who was out of shape, given we have no idea how long he was stranded on Malachor.
Originally posted by Darth Thorhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXCOoKYIPU4
Which would also shed light on Filoni's quote given it was talking specifically about S2.
Originally posted by Darth ThorYou’ve been repeatedly accusing me of butthurt and lies to cover up your own lack of an argument, lmao.
Oh really and what have I lied about?
Originally posted by Darth Thorhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYVO5bUFww0
Nah there's nothing wrong with my intellect.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
More likely you know I'm right and you know I've called you out on your double standards.
Originally posted by Darth ThorAnd you can’t carry on a debate without “durr hurr ur a fanboy and butthurt”, so whatever, lmao.
Given that you can't carry on debating without throwing a hissy fit and insults and accusations every other sentence.
Originally posted by Darth ThorI’ve been presenting arguments this entire debate, LOL @ the lie that all I’ve been doing is insulting you.
So it's easier fo you to join the Quan camp and just say "Urr der you just stupid.." 👆
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Then don't get on a high horse and claim you've repeatedly explained it when you haven't even countered my points, you ****ing idiot. I wasn't saying no response = concession, but if you haven't responded to my points, don't go on a different thread later and say "lol I've repeatedly explained this to you".
Why don't you stop whining and just repeat your argument. Because I have no idea what you're talking about, but going by this thread, you're literally just repeating the same 2-3 points which I've broken down multiple times.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
"Urm", I implied Filoni's word is still extremely relevant, and is especially relevant in regards to Ahsoka and Star Wars Rebels.
As he is to Savage and TCW Mr. Double Standards.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Let me explain this to you. Filoni is pretty high up in the food chain in Lucasfilm, especially in regards to animation, and he is entrusted with overseeing all of Lucasfilm animation. He created Ahsoka, he worked on both TCW and Rebels, and so he has an understanding of literally everyone in the OT (Sidious, Vader, Kenobi, Ahsoka, Maul) bar Luke, writing-wise (and by extension, obviously combat-wise). His commentary on the combat levels on the show he is working on is pretty relevant, because we base these forum discussions on fights that happen in the show, and what happens in the show is canon. If Filoni implies Ahsoka is superior in the show, then that was the intention, and we should put stock into that implication. If Filoni made some statement regarding Luke Skywalker’s combat level in RotJ, I’d be far less inclined to take it seriously, because you know what? Filoni hasn’t written Luke or worked on a show with him.
And all this applies equally to Savage, TCW and the B-Team.
You're not saying anything that it isn't painfully obvious that I already know, just from reading this thread.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
You act as if I give a shit whether Savage is above the B-Team or not? As if I have an agenda that Filoni's quote regarding Savage damages? Disputing the legitimacy of a quote by applying context to it isn't a double standard, Jesus Christ.If I was having a double standard, it would be if I thought Filoni's Ahsoka quote was legitimate, and then Filoni comes out saying "Maul is better than Ahsoka", and I ignore it. That's a double standard. Disregarding the Savage / B-Team quote is not a double standard when you factor in other circumstances that weren't covered, i.e Sidious holding back.
I've never disputed the validity of Filoni's commentary, merely your interpretation of it. The validity of Filoni's word is a non-issue to our disagreement since I'm only disagreeing with your interpretation of Filoni's statement rather than the statement itself, and you've managed to blow the false notion that I reject the validity of Filoni's word as some sort of double standard way out of proportion and it's pretty ****ing hilarious honestly.
I really don't care if you give a shit about Savage or not. I'm simply calling you out on your double standards. Something you've also accused me off in your rant, yet failed to provide even a single example of my apparent double standards.
So clearly you're just ranting at this point.
Holy crap.. Do you even read my arguments before responding? Filoni made his interpretation of the Savage quote crystal clear. He never once attributed Savage's superior performance over the B-Team to Sidious screwing around.
Now it's Your Turn to LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY (if you keep skipping over this point, then I'll simply accept your concession, which I'm pretty sure you've already given by repeating the same nonsense over and over without actually addressing the main points)
He's THE ONE who made the Comparison! Answer me this (if you're capable): Why on Earth would he Make the Comparison if he thought the context of both fights were not comparable?
He CLEARLY CREDITED Savage for that superior performance.
He CLEARLY CREDITED Savage for that superior performance.
He CLEARLY CREDITED Savage for that superior performance.
Do you understand that point? I thought 3 times might be the charm for your brain to accept it.
It's ONLY YOU whose attributing that Savage's superior performance to Palpatine screwing around. Not Filoni.
Any different interpretation you want to make up IS YOU SPECULATING. Filoni's statements on the other hand were clear cut. Just let your Brain take that in.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Please, Darth Thor. Filoni saying Savage did better against Sidious in completely different circumstances than the B-Team proves nothing, and me disputing the quote is not evidence of a double standard, even if I'm wrong and Filoni is meaning what you’re saying. The Ahsoka quote and the Savage quote are not similar, therefore accepting one and disputing the other is not a double standard.
You're right about one thing here. The 2 quotes are not similar at all. The Ahsoka one was a vague implication. Whereas the Savage one was a clear as daylight Direct Statement.
Both could have other contextual factors surrounding them. But you want to take the Vague implication as Canon fact. I wonder why that is? LMAO
Originally posted by |King Joker|
You despise critical thinking because you can't even comprehend how my criticism of the Savage quote and my support for the Ahsoka quote differ. But I've explained that.
Addressed. My comprehension is just fine. It's you're closed mindedness and clear fanboyism which is taking this around in circles and clearly getting you all riled up Lol
Originally posted by |King Joker|
I’ll ask you again: What external factors?
Holy crap! For a guy whose accusing me of being dumb, you sure have a lot of comprehension problems as well as a pretty short term memory:
He was stranded on Malachor.
He hadn't fought in a long time.
Ahsoka still failed to overpower him- Canon Fact. Understanding what's Canon and what's not yet? Something that happened in Canon is... wait for it... Canon.
Something that a fanboy showrunner might or might not have implied... isn't.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
“Filoni is just biased!” is not an argument, sorry.
No, it's actually a Fact, given he admits it.
You're clearly new to debating so I'll leave you with his to educate yourself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author
Especially relevant when the author in this case, is admittedly biased, and clearly doesn't get final say.
You should thank me, I've just educated you more than your teachers are clearly doing.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
She was the only one to make offensive headway in the fight and there’s plenty of evidence suggesting the dark siders were amped.
LOL @ her making headway.
And DD9 has debunked this dark sider amp nonsense.
Pablo Hidalgo himself (ever heard of him) can't give a straight answer to that, but wait for it... a mega Ahsoka fan has just outright confirmed it for us 👆
Since you love Filoni so much, I'll bring this up again (which you've also failed to address multiple times in the past):
Filoni doesn't give a rats ass about Nexus's giving amps. He never once mentioned it in his commentary for the Ventress vs Grievous fight. And The Vader vs Ahsoka fight went EXACTLY how he always imagined it, as he confirms in the same interview you're clinging to. But again selective reading/listening seems to be a real issue for you.
Not to mention Kanan was clearly much more heavily amped in their fight than Maul, so there were obviously heavy amps accessible to lightsiders there as well.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Zero proof whatsoever.
LOL did you not watch the episode? Please tell me exactly where he was keeping up with his combat skills when stranded on Malachor?
Originally posted by |King Joker|
You’ve been repeatedly accusing me of butthurt and lies to cover up your own lack of an argument, lmao.
I've accused you of acting butthurt because that's exactly how you're acting. Like some teenager with hormone issues.
Yes you keep accusing me of lies yet fail to present a single lie I've said. Could it be down to the butthurt? Hmm
Lack of an argument? Says the guy who Ignores my arguments that address his rebuttals.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
And you can’t carry on a debate without “durr hurr ur a fanboy and butthurt”, so whatever, lmao.
Oh I can.. But you really don't expect me to just take out all the shit you're throwing at me without at least calling you out on the way you're acting do you?
Originally posted by |King Joker|
I’ve been presenting arguments this entire debate, LOL @ the lie that all I’ve been doing is insulting you.
Did I say that's ALL you're doing. That wouldn't be a Lie now would it Joker?
Originally posted by Darth ThorQuit with the personal attacks and do some reflecting. Joker isn't an aggressive poster but he's being aggressive with you due to your double standards and inability to debate the actual points. What you just critiqued him for is entirely what this post I just quoted contains. Hypocrisy.
Wow you've gone into full out crazy mode. You also keep repeating the same arguments without actually addressing mine.And I like how you've not calmed down on the insults one bit. Pretty pathetic really.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
So, just to make this clear, if Filoni said, straight up, that Ahsoka was better than Maul, you wouldn't think that was grounds enough to think Ahsoka was > Maul in canon? I’ve explained why Filoni’s implications and / or statements should be taken seriously.
Didn't address this part and I think it's important to clear up.
No one here (except a few clinging desperately) will argue anymore that Maul can take Vader. Why is that?
Because not only does Filioni say Vader would have killed Maul had they fought, but FPJ says it, Witwer says it, and Maul himself admits he can't take him on the show.
Now THAT's enough statements to just call evidence at this stage.
However Filoni on his own saying he thinks Ahsoka could take Maul is not enough evidence when
1)They fought and that never happened (could be the Story Group didn't allow Filoni to show Ahsoka being > Maul... food for thought, relevant to the idea that Filoni doesn't get Final Say).
2) Witwer hasn't backed him up on that one, like he has on his statements about Maul vs Vader. And Witwer has no issue admitting when Maul is outmatched, and talked about all that, in the same conversation he talked about Ahsoka's combative abilities. He seems to be putting them in the same kind of league.
3) It was an implication, not a direct comparison.
So from the above, I completely agree Maul vs Ahsoka would be a damn good fight. But the evidence simply isn't there that Ashoka > Maul. Well not yet anyway. That evidence may come tomorrow, but it's not there today.
Now if you want to say that YOU BELIEVE that Ahsoka > Maul based on what Filoni stated plus other factors, then fair enough. But don't act like it's canon fact, because it's not.