Originally posted by McP
Allright, if he could, then it would be mostly due to Kenobi's lack of stamina, not Vader's superior skill.
Well the stamina thing is speculation. More likely Vader was just more powerful and Ben knew he could only temporarily hold him off, as the dialogue suggests.
Originally posted by McP
It wasn't a lie. I ddin't say, that he was inferior warrior. He fought her, overhelmed her which enabled him to push her out of the ledge. She then rejoined the fight, he noted that in time, turned himself right to her, attacked her and missed, while she not. And he got hited by her saber. Then we only see a great explosion, something, that walks deeper in the ruins, and Vader that barely could walk.
It could be nothig, it could be Ahsoka's Force Ghost, Ahsoka herself or something else. Since I doubt, that Filoni would kill his favourite character, his daughter that way, I believe it was Ahoska. And in that way of thinking, it seems that she was in a better condition then Vader at the end.
So he was unable to beat her at the end.
He pushed her off the ledge. So he clearly was able to beat her quite solidly. He was just distracted by other things.
Originally posted by McP
Indeed he was. Until now at least. But if Filoni will gain an acces to use this character in the future... It wont be as obvious as it is now. Anyway, I alread noted, that he was. I just noted that Anakin was clearly stronger, and he couldn't stomp Dooku (considered by many, as Vader's inferior) as hard as Luke stomped Vader at the end of their fight.
Filoni's bigs Vader up and says Luke was no match for him, so I don't know what Filoni taking over would prove. Because he would only lowball Luke, but not Vader.
Vader vs Luke was a Father vs Son battle with conflicting emotions all over the place, and Vader never once utilized his most potent weapon anyway (his TK). So you can't just put all your stock into that fight.
Originally posted by McP
Perhaps. Perhaps not. Anakin's feat with statue in the Temple from ROTS video game was also impressive as hell. Perhaps Dooku could do something similar, and perhaps not. Impossible to tell.
But anyway, there is nothing Vader have done in Canon, that would suggest that he would be able to stomp people of Kenobi's caliber with the Force as easily as Dooku could. With one exception, TFU. But basing of any source, without powerscaling, would force us to admit Mace's superiority over Sidious/Dooku/Vader in terms of TK.
In Canon Vader's AT-AT Crushing is the biggest raw TK feat.
Yes power scaling is just as important as feats, but there's actually nothing to suggest that Palptine's TK is significantly above Vader's in Canon.
Nothing to suggest? Are you serious? Can you imagine Ben or Ahsoka not being stomped by Sidious in terms of TK like Maul was? Vader seems to be unable to do that.
Anyway, I have my own point of viev, and I believe that Vader is in fact a beast in TK. Clearly above Dooku. But I also think, that you have to be exordinary strong, to be able to stomp the others with that. Dooku is one of my favourite characters, yet I don't think, that he was powerful enough, to beat Kenobi with the Force whenever he wanted. He did that mostly due to the fact, that he thrown Kenobi off-balance in sabers fight, and catched him off-guard. Vader is inferior duelist, and he couldn't to that as often as Dooku. He also was able to push Ahsoka out of the ledge, mostly because he was overhelming her in a lighstaber duel.
And compering to that, Sidious and Yoda both are on another level of TK and dueling skills.
Originally posted by McP
Nothing to suggest? Are you serious? Can you imagine Ben or Ahsoka not being stomped by Sidious in terms of TK like Maul was? Vader seems to be unable to do that.
Hmm.. Fair point.
Originally posted by McPAnyway, I have my own point of viev, and I believe that Vader is in fact a beast in TK. Clearly above Dooku. But I also think, that you have to be exordinary strong, to be able to stomp the others with that. Dooku is one of my favourite characters, yet I don't think, that he was powerful enough, to beat Kenobi with the Force whenever he wanted. He did that mostly due to the fact, that he thrown Kenobi off-balance in sabers fight, and catched him off-guard. Vader is inferior duelist, and he couldn't to that as often as Dooku. He also was able to push Ahsoka out of the ledge, mostly because he was overhelming her in a lighstaber duel.
Fair points, but still not sure why you're so sure that Dooku is a superior duellist to Vader. Vader grew in power since ROTS, but then his robotics seemed to have held him back a bit in Sabers. But put it all together I don't see him being below TCW Anakin in Sabers. However his TK is well above Anakin's. And the robotics have some strengths as well. It's not all a weakness.
Originally posted by McPAnd compering to that, Sidious and Yoda both are on another level of TK and dueling skills.
Possibly yeah. But I don't think it's as big a gap as you're making out in either category.