Originally posted by Azronger👆
I'd say Plagueis, you know, unbalancing the Force as a whole just by, essentially, thinking about it, is sufficient proof that he can attain specific Force techniques just by willing it. And then there's the fact that Plagueis muses he has absolutely no talent for Sith Sorcery, yet he pulls off illusions regardless.You still haven't proven that Nihilus can drain Plagueis before the latter will slice him in two. I seriously doubt that, since Nihilus, as Nova mentioned, apparently failed to drain Traya, someone who Plagueis could erase out of existense by blinking. It's also a canonical fact that Force powers can be resisted by sheer willpower, which Plagueis has more than any other character, bar Sidious and possibly Luke and Yoda.
This should apply to drain, and also telekinesis.
Seems likely that it was through force of will that Revan and Malak resisted the Star Forge.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because Force drain targets the victim's connection to the Force i.e. their midichlorians.
Quite possibly, however, when has Plagueis manipulated Midichlorians in actual combat situation, specifically, sufficient enough to prevent drainer that drain entire planets with a thought, and devastate them with the Force all the same?
Originally posted by Deronn_soloHe healed himself against Sidious' Force lightning, albeit not fast enough to circumvent it. He was also caught totally off-guard in his sleep, and drunk, and Sidious noted it was arrogant to think he could heal through his lightning in that situation instead of fighting back.
Quite possibly, however, when has Plagueis manipulated Midichlorians in actual combat situation, specifically, sufficient enough to prevent drainer that drain entire planets with a thought, and devastate them with the Force all the same?
Suggests to me that Plagueis could have put up a much greater fight if he wasn't caught unaware and drunk; the fact he can see any returns on healing while being directly fried with Sidious' lightning - lightning being a power that directly drains life energy, Sidious being the most powerful Sith ever - is staggering, especially in those circumstances.
Originally posted by BeniboyblingIn other words, Nihilus is a fly trying to crack a bank vault.
More than that, Plagueis is described as making no other effort to defend himself, and Sidious as drawing more deeply on the dark side than he ever had. And yet it's only through suffocation that Plagueis is said to die, nothing actually indicates the Force lightning did Plagueis lasting bodily harm.
Originally posted by Azronger
I'd say Plagueis, you know, unbalancing the Force as a whole just by, essentially, thinking about it, is sufficient proof that he can attain specific Force techniques just by willing it.
Plagueis, along with Sidious, exerted their will on the Force via manipulation of midichlorian a niche in the Force that Plagueis has mastered like no other before, or after him. So, no, Plagueis didin't just think about it and imbalanced the Force ---- he did so via manipulating the midichrlorians, a power he mastered to the fullest, and will power.
And then there's the fact that Plagueis muses he has absolutely no talent for Sith Sorcery, yet he pulls off illusions regardless.
Umm, since when does illusion universally fall under the sorcery umbrella? 😬
You still haven't proven that Nihilus can drain Plagueis before the latter will slice him in two.
I already gave my thoughts on the matter of speed blitz. If you think my reasoning wasn't sufficient enough, agree to disagree.
We all adhere to that type of logic at the end of the day, otherwise, you'd be claiming Maul could blitz Ragnos because the latter lacks any speed feast of note.
I seriously doubt that, since Nihilus, as Nova mentioned, apparently failed to drain Traya.
Nahilus failed to kill Traya, with drain, yes. But he factually severed her connection for the Force utterly, thus succeeded in draining her.
It's also a canonical fact that Force powers can be resisted by sheer willpower, which Plagueis has more than any other character, bar Sidious and possibly Luke and Yoda.This should apply to drain, and also telekinesis.
Except, in practice, that has never been the case. Mace Windu, and Yoda --- have both either failed to resist drain, or was stated to be unable to resist it, despite them both having [especially in Yoda's case] top-tier willpower.
The Dark Reaper, a device that is far and away inferior to Nihilus' drain, rendered Yoda useless to deactivate it, with only Anakin stop it a secret secret technique taught to him by Ulic, no willpower mentioned or involved. Then, we have Mace getting drained utterly by a random space vampire. Again, you'd think his will power would be enough to reist getting his power siphoned by a random, but it wasn't the case.
So, yeah - I'm gonna go by what has been shown in actual works rather than go by a power only mentioned in the Star Wars RPG game.
But as always my dear: feel free to disagree.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Plagueis, along with Sidious, exerted their will on the Force via manipulation of midichlorian a niche in the Force that Plagueis has mastered like no other before, or after him. So, no, Plagueis didin't just think about it and imbalanced the Force ---- he did so via manipulating the midichrlorians, a power he mastered to the fullest, and will power.
No, they meditated when they unbalanced the Force. They didn't manipulate midi-chlorians, IIRC. It wouldn't make sense anyway: how would manipulating the midi-chlorians of a few individuals unbalance the Force on a galactic scale?
Umm, since when does illusion universally fall under the sorcery umbrella? 😬
Haven't dark side illusions always been described as Sith Sorcery?
I already gave my thoughts on the matter of speed blitz. If you think my reasoning wasn't sufficient enough, agree to disagree.
I didn't mean Plagueis'd blitz Nihilus. I just can't see how Plagueis isn't stomping someone who lost to a team of Exile, Visas and Canderous, in CQC.
And if they start at a distance, I doubt Nihilus would be able to do significant damage before Plagueis closes the distance, which, given the latter's speed, would be something akin to instantaneous movement.
We all adhere to that type of logic at the end of the day, otherwise, you'd be claiming Maul could blitz Ragnos because the latter lacks any speed feast of note.
Not blitzing, but I'd say he beats him pretty easily in sabers.
Nahilus failed to kill Traya, with drain, yes. But he factually severed her connection for the Force utterly, thus succeeded in draining her.
Traya was literally an insect compared to Nihilus. That doesn't prove he can drain someone with thousands of times the Force strength of Traya - Force strength which eclipses Nihilus' own.
Except, in practice, that has never been the case. Mace Windu, and Yoda --- have both either failed to resist drain, or was stated to be unable to resist it, despite them both having [especially in Yoda's case] top-tier willpower.The Dark Reaper, a device that is far and away inferior to Nihilus' drain, rendered Yoda useless to deactivate it, with only Anakin stop it a secret secret technique taught to him by Ulic, no willpower mentioned or involved. Then, we have Mace getting drained utterly by a random space vampire. Again, you'd think his will power would be enough to reist getting his power siphoned by a random, but it wasn't the case.
So, yeah - I'm gonna go by what has been shown in actual works rather than go by a power only mentioned in the Star Wars RPG game.
But as always my dear: feel free to disagree.
I'd say the Dark Reaper is quite comparable to Nihilus. Draining an entire moon dry and thousands of Jedi at once isn't far off from draining a planet with the aid of orbital bombardment whilst being empowered by a dark side nexus. In fact, it might be superior, given that we have no drain feats from Nihilus outside the Ravager, which is a nexus.
Other than that, fair enough.
Originally posted by SunRazer
@Az - You might be a bit hyperbolic with "thousands of times" the Force strength of, etc.
I often tend to be, yeah.
As for where willpower is suggested to counter Drain, I'm probably going to put that in my Drain blog when I finish it. [/B]
And when will that be? But could you at least post a truncated version?