Like I said, the notion that Snoke can be legitimately duped like that, despite actively reading Kylo's mind as he was carrying out the plan to murder him, doesn't make Snoke look good. At all.
But you're welcome to believe that the scene can be contorted into making sense. Doesn't matter to me either way.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are free to believe Snoke is 3 feet tall for all I care. Rian explained the thought process of the scene which is corroborated by what I interpreted. Kylo waits till an opportunity presents itself and while Snoke lets his guard down aka distracted he strikes.
Rian himself states his opinion doesnt count.
This is what you do not get. The canon made it clear Kylo hid his true intentions from Snoke. So his TP was powerful enough to fool Snoke.
Originally posted by Galan007
[B-]
I mean, I could probably use that showing as a means to lowball Snoke if I were so inclined. However, I am firmly of the opinion that his psi abilities >>>> Kylo's(because that's what canon explicitly states.) [/B]
Does a canon source explicitly state that somewhere, or is that only what Rey thought?
Originally posted by Galan007Anyone can be duped when they let their guard down as the Circumstances allowed it.
Like I said, the notion that Snoke can be legitimately duped like that, despite actively reading Kylo's mind as he was carrying out the plan to murder him, doesn't make Snoke look good. At all.But you're welcome to believe that the scene can be contorted into making sense. Doesn't matter to me either way.
Johnson is the guy who directed it.
Originally posted by Darth ThorHe is being polite but the director saying how he set the scene matters. Snoke is clearly more powerful than Ren. Circumstances allowed for it. He was arrogant but power wise he is on another level despite your prediction of Rey beating him.
Rian himself states his opinion doesnt count.This is what you do not get. The canon made it clear Kylo hid his true intentions from Snoke. So his TP was powerful enough to fool Snoke.
Does a canon source explicitly state that somewhere, or is that only what Rey thought?
Originally posted by ares834
I've no clue why some of you care about Snoke this much. Not only is he a shitty Palpatine knock-off; he is also nearly irrelevant to the plot of the films.
People look at the fact that Snoke is the evil Supreme Leader with strong force powers and shout "Palpatine knock-off" without giving it a second thought.
He serves the plot differently, he's not as intelligent, and though his fall due to his hubris is intentionally similar to Palpatine's, he's a very different kind of villain, mostly because this is a very different kind of story.
Originally posted by Galan007
I mean, Rey has felt the TP of both Kylo and Snoke, and noted that Snoke's was FAR more powerful.I see no reason to believe the narrative was intended to mislead us..?
I mean we have to remember its from her point of view and she is still essentially a noob. Anakins line of AOTC Kenobi being as powerful as AOTC Windu comes to mind.
Clearly we know she was able to resist mind probing from Kylo but not from Snoke. So perhaps Kylo needed more mastery of mind probing but had better defences.
But I would not expect a noob like Rey to get the difference between different levels of mastery and raw power.
Originally posted by ares834
I've no clue why some of you care about Snoke this much. Not only is he a shitty Palpatine knock-off; he is also nearly irrelevant to the plot of the films.
Lol true
Originally posted by Darth ThorRey *could* sense the difference between their TP, though. She literally described the vast difference in power she sensed from each of them in the novelization.
I mean we have to remember its from her point of view and she is still essentially a noob. Anakins line of AOTC Kenobi being as powerful as AOTC Windu comes to mind.Clearly we know she was able to resist mind probing from Kylo but not from Snoke. So perhaps Kylo needed more mastery of mind probing but had better defences.
But I would not expect a noob like Rey to get the difference between different levels of mastery and raw power.
Moreover, Rey could not only resist Kylo's TP, she could actually reverse it and begin probing his mind instead(and this was before she had any understanding about the force whatsoever.) Conversely, Snoke easily ripped every shred of knowledge he wanted from Rey's mind, and she was utterly powerless to resist.
So yeah, I'd say the novelization's description is perfectly accurate. I'm certainly no fan of Snoke, but I'll still give credit where credit is due.
Originally posted by ares834Except he is not. He is not Sith, looks different, has a different mindset, degrades his underlings far more cruelly than Sidious ever did in the films. His voice is by far and away the greatest Star Wars voice ever.
Except he is. He is yet another decrepit sorcerer who does little more than sit on a throne and spout dark side platitudes. Hell, his dialogue in the Throne room scene was pretty much straight up cribbed from RotJ.
Originally posted by Galan007Moreover, Rey could not only resist Kylo's TP, she could actually reverse it and begin probing his mind instead(and this was before she had any understanding about the force whatsoever.)
He may have been caught off guard with that tough.
I mean theres 2 possibilities. Either the difference in power between Kylo and Snoke is not as much as Rey thinks. Or Kylo killing Snoke is a massive inconsistency.
However its clearly not an inconsistency that can simply be overlooked given what a big event that was.
Originally posted by Darth ThorLess powerful people can kill more powerful especially when they have their eyes closed and are distracted. We see how he treated a more seasoned Rey when Rey overpowered Ren as a complete noob. There is a reason Snoke said bring her to me.
Yes lets ignore evidence and just go by whats “obvious” to Quan.Snoke wouldnt have got killed by someone “vastly” less powerful sport.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
He may have been caught off guard with that tough.
"Ah," Kylo Ren thought to himself. "Something there, of interest." Not the image of the map. That would take another moment. But definitely something worth investigating. He shifted his perception toward it, seeking to identify, to analyze, to...The barrier he encountered stopped him cold. And it was he, Kylo Ren, who blinked. It made no sense. He pushed, hard, with his mind--and the probe went
nowhere. A look of amazement replaced the fear on Rey's face as she discovered herself inside HIS mind.-TFA
Kylo tried, and legitimately failed, to read Rey's mind. She then infiltrated his mind instead. Snoke, on the other hand, easily peered inside Rey's mind and ripped all the information out of it that he wanted -- and she couldn't do a damn thing to resist him. This is when she noted how much more powerful Snoke's TP was than Kylo's.