Darth Tenebrous (Azronger) vs Emperor Vitiate (Deronn_solo)

Post 2

Not that he necessarily needs that power to win, given Vitiate’s absolutely embarrassing lack of combat skills.

Even Mando Revan (a far inferior version to the one Vitiate bested) was capable of plowing through entire armies, and he, and Malak was dominated so thoroughly by Vitiate, it might as well not have been a battle:

In their last meeting he had overwhelmed Revan completely; it wasn’t even fair to call it a battle. Revan had grown since then. He was far more powerful now, but was he a match for the Emperor?

Alone, probably not. With the combined strength of Meetra, Scourge, and even T3, however, he believed they stood a real chance of victory.

____

Back to the raw power/reserves argument again, so far, for Tenebrous, we have:

- Tenebrous being able to burst at best or shrink at worst a galaxy wide nexus under unspecified circumstances and a unlisted amount of time.

- Tenebrous, maybe being able to change the climate of a planet by being on it, despite the fact it was never stated Plagueis presence did in fact cause the climate change, nor does it explain why that doesn't happen when Plagueis visited 100's of other planets in the future.

Literally, none of this proves he has more reserves, or raw power than a nigh-god being whom essence consumed an Order's worth of Sith Lords and a freaking planet, on top of his intrinsic prodigal Force power. So yeah, Vitiate definitely takes this round, no debate. 👆

Horrendous environmental awareness, as demonstrated when he crapped his pants at the sight of a lightsaber throw not even aimed at him, and if not for the morals of his adversary, would have died:
Irrelevant, lmao. Vitiate isn't fighting multiple opponents here - he's fighting one, and that is Tenebrous.

Tenebrous could simply distract him with a Force Phantom

or an illusion

and then kill him with a saber throw, because.

2. Inability to attack while on the defence, as demonstrated when he had to disrupt his Lightning Storm on Revan, in order to protect himself from a meager flame thrower:

Through the haze of indescribable pain, he saw T3-M4 rushing in to help him. The droid let loose with his flamethrower, bathing the Emperor in fire. at the last instant the Emperor cocooned himself in the Force to save himself from being incinerated, breaking his focus on Revan.

This is a non-issue, honestly.

Tenebrous, with his Force Lightning possessing enough power to turn its victims to ash upon contact.

could simply fire a continuous barrage, leaving Vitiate unable to retaliate, while he advances forward, and when he is in melee range, he will cut Vitiate down.

"Revan emerged from the cell. He had pulled the hood of his Jedi robe up to cover his head, and he word the red-and-gray mask, hiding his face. A dozen bolts of lightning sprang from Nyriss's hand, arcing across the room to incinerate her enemies.

Instead of leaping back into the cell to avoid the deadly attack, Revan stepped forward to intercept it. Both hands were held in front of him, his arms fully extended at shoulder height, his thumbs touching and his fingers splayed wide.

He drew the bolts of lightning into his waiting grasp, channeling them away from their intended targets and absorbing their power. "I am Revan reborn," he said to Nyriss. "And before me you are nothing."

Nyriss's eyes went wide as Revan unleashed the power of her own attack against her. She tried to throw up another Force shield, but the bolts ripped it apart and continued on unabated. The lightning engulfed her, the intense heat consuming her instantly, leaving only a pile of charred ash."
-- Excerpt from Revan

I have a hard time not seeing Vitiate, no selling Tenebrous' inferior lightning barrage.

. Idiotic decision-making, as demonstrated when he literally, of his own free will, consciously knowing what he was doing, walked right into his opponent’s lightsaber.

-

[.......continued......]

, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Post 3

4. Terrible reflexes, as demonstrated when he failed to react to his own Force Lightning:

I guess an aspect of the Force itself has shit reflexes, too. 👆

But, your horrible argument aside, we know that, Vitiate's prolonged FLS on Revan , T3's flame bath, Vitiate obliteration of T4, and Vitiate walking over to pick up Revan's lightsaber to deliver the killing blow happened in the span of a few seconds:

What he saw was not good. Revan was being electrocuted, his body spasming uncontrollably as the Emperor blasted him with dark purple lightning. Revan’s astromech launched a jet of flame at the Emperor, freeing Revan, who collapsed to the ground. In retaliation, the Emperor disintegrated the offending droid, strode over to where Revan lay, and picked the vanquished Jedi’s lightsaber up off the floor.

It all happened in the space of only a few seconds.

The Sith Lord raised his lightsaber to deliver the coup de grâce. He brought his arm down, but it suddenly stopped as if an invisible and impossibly strong hand had seized his wrist.

He glanced back at the Emperor in surprise.

“Put away your blade. You have passed the test,” the Emperor said. “But Revan can still be of use to me.”

Meetra had placed herself between the Emperor and Revan, valiantly protecting her wounded friend. As Scourge reached them, Revan managed to stand up again. He reached out with an open palm and his lightsaber sprang from the floor and into his waiting grasp.

The three of them stood side by side, two Jedi and a Sith Lord against the Emperor.

The Force washed over him in a wave, and a million possible futures flickered through his mind simultaneously. In some the Emperor was no more; in others he had transformed the entire galaxy into an empty wasteland. He saw both Revan’s triumph and defeat in the throne room; he saw variations of his own life and death played out over and over in every conceivable way, shape, and form.

Revan lay motionless on the floor of the Citadel’s throne room. Meetra and Scourge lay beside him, their bodies twisted and broken, clinging to the last moments of life.

The Emperor approached the trio, regarding them with a cold and casual contempt as he loomed above his fallen adversaries. Scourge tried to stand and flee, but his crippled limbs wouldn’t support his weight. All he could do was crawl on his belly like a worm.

His efforts drew the attention of the Emperor, who didn’t speak but came over and lowered himself to one knee. He grabbed Scourge by the shoulder and rolled him over so he was staring up into the twin voids of the Emperor’s eyes.

As he reached out a hand and placed it on Scourge’s forehead, the Sith began to scream.

Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless. At least this way Scourge was still alive to carry on their cause.

Going by the above, plus the fact that Force speed, is, mostly depended on how much power the Force users is packing to fuel a certain augmentation, I fail to see the horrendous logic on Vitiate being slow, lal. So, in short, Vitiate in fact, does have the necessary speed to deflect lightning attacks - one instance of him getting tagged doesn't solidify the the outlandish notion that he is incapable of defending against them when he has shown the feats sufficent enough to say he has

Tenebrous could simply deflect his attacks back at him and he wouldn’t be able to defend himself since he wouldn’t get a barrier up in time. This also makes me wonder whether he could react to Tenebrous’ lightning, or Tenebrous himself, as the latter moves faster than the speed of lightning:

Hint: it doesn't. 😉

Vitiate can, and will, react to Tenebrous just fine, and win either through Force Lightning Storm, a telekinetic attack, esoteric Sorcery, or, quite possibly, simple mental dominate.

______

Losing to one-shottable fodder, as demonstrated when Lord Scourge saw numerous visions about the outcome of his and his allies’ battle against Vitiate. In some, they lost and in others they won, but most importantly, Scourge was not able to determine which outcome was the most likely to happen, meaning there was a roughly equal chance of Vitiate winning or losing

Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless. At least this way Scourge was still alive to carry on their cause.

This issue is practically a non-factor. 👆

Post 4

This completely invalidates your claims about Vitiate winning 10/10 against Tenebrous.

when he can only win 5/10 against three people each of which he can one-shot with the Force.

2. Vitiate can't just one-shot Revan at his leisure

3. Dunno what this has to do with Tenebrous, like at all.

And Vitiate sure as hell isn’t one-shotting Tenebrous.

who can casually block lightsaber blows without even needing hand gestures...[snip]

- Satele Shan, as a Jedi Knight, was able to block, and absorb a lightsaber stab from one of Sidious' most powerful predecessors, Darth Malgus:

[Keep in mind, this is Satele as a Jedi Knight, she logically became ever more powerful once she ascended to a Grand Master, as no Force sensitive hits the peak of their potential in their 20's.]

- Revan, is factually Satele superior, as proven when he ragdolled her, along with other members of the Yavin IV strike team, during the SoR expansion:

So, as we've already established Revan >>> Grand Master Satele Shan > Jedi Knight Satele Shan, meaning, Revan, a master at the art of absorption, is sporting Force power in that category, vastly superior to someone that can stop a lightsaber blade, in her weaker incarnation.

Yet, what happens when Revan tried to do the same to Vitiate? Yeah, that's right - we was destroyed:

The Emperor rose to his feet, his robes smoking and singed where the lighting had struck him. His black eyes flashed red, and he raised both hands high above his head.

Revan knew he was gathering his power to unleash a swirling storm of pure dark side energy, just as Nyriss had done. The Jedi quickly calculated his options. Realizing he couldn’t close the gap between them quickly enough to stop the assault, he gathered his own energy and spread his hands before him, ready to catch and absorb the Emperor’s attack.

A dozen bolts of purple lightning arced from the Emperor toward him. Revan tried to draw them in and contain them, but the Emperor was infinitely more powerful than Darth Nyriss had ever been.

Revan’s body was engulfed in agony as the electricity coursed through his body. His skin began to boil and blister, the flesh of his face melting and sticking to the superheated metal of his mask as the Emperor poured more and more power into him.

Thus, Vitiate lightning >> the plasma energy released by a lightsaber. 👆

Vitiate’s attacks aren’t even close to being as potent as a lightsaber blade, so Tenebrous will have no difficulty blocking them, either.
Red above, this shit has been debunked.

In the end, no amount of godlike power and hype is going to help Vitiate when it comes down to personal combat, where he simply sucks. He has possibly the most pathetic showings in the entire mythos, relative to his hype he receives and his power level.

____

Vitiate can, and will, react to Tenebrous just fine, and win either through Force Lightning Storm, a telekinetic attack, esoteric Sorcery, or, quite possibly, simple mental dominate.

He has absolutely no way of putting Tenebrous down.

when the latter can just deflect his attacks with a lightsaber

or with the Force.

or he can dodge them with no difficulty whatsoever.

Tenebrous in turn can close the distance very quickly and chop him up into a million little pieces.

but I doubt he’ll even have to, since Vitiate will probably walk into his lightsaber again, lmao.

Or he can create illusions and phantoms to confuse Vitiate, and easily kill him while he’s distracted.

Or straight up overpower him in a Force battle.

Post 4

Now as for why Vitiate wins, it's very simple actually, read the following,

1. Telepathy

Vitiate, could, possibly finish this by dominating Tenebrous' mind.

Even as a child, before gaining a absolute substantial amount of power, knowledge, and skill in the Force, tehn absorbing a Order with a Sith and a planet, he utterly trashed Dramath's mind:

Tenebrae broke Lord Dramath's mind, but not before revealing that he was actually his son.

Dramath, while not floating in feats, was powerful enough to have and entire planet under his heels.

Later on, l, while using only a small fraction of his power, he was able to utterly dominate the minds of Revan and Malak:

By the time Revan and Malak approached the Emperor in his throne room, they were already at the precipice of the dark side. It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. The Jedi succumbed utterly to the Sith leader's domination and returned to the Republic to spark a new conflict: the Jedi Civil War.

[...]

"When we got to his throne room, he was ready and waiting.” His voice dropped low. “We underestimated his power. When we confronted him, he didn’t even have to fight us. Instead, he broke our wills. He dominated our minds, turning us into puppets to do his bidding.

Mando Revan was already the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, with Malak being pretty damn powerful himself, yet, it only took a minuscule amount of that power to utterly dominate and twist their minds to his cause.

Unlike Revan the second time around, Tenebrous doesn't know Vitiate's tactics or tricks of his telepathic fight that allowed the former to fight of the mental power of Tenebrae:

“This time I know his tricks and tactics,” Revan assured them. “I can shield my mind from being dominated by his will, and I can show you how to do the same.”

Unless you can prove Tenebrous sports the mental prowess to resist the power of being who casually mind-slaved prodigal Jedi and his powerful companion, or easily mind dominate a powerful Sith Lord who governed an entire planet as a neophyte - before becoming far more powerful an skilled, I don't see Tenebrous fairing well to.

2. Force Lightning Storm

Vitiate could simply ravage Tenebrous with a Force lightning storm - it's too wide spread to contain with a lightsaber, and Tenebrous' defenses, isn't sufficient enough to deflect it, as your Banite scaling for Brous' barrier isn't even better than Revan's someone whom Vitiate's lightning completely tore through.

The Force lightning storm doesn't take long to charge up at all, as Revan couldn't even close a not-so-big gap to interrupt Vitiate's attack, and instead, opted to combat the attack itself. Obviously to no avail:

Revan knew he was gathering his power to unleash a swirling storm of pure dark side energy, just as Nyriss had done. The Jedi quickly calculated his options. Realizing he couldn’t close the gap between them quickly enough to stop the assault, he gathered his own energy and spread his hands before him, ready to catch and absorb the Emperor’s attack.

A dozen bolts of purple lightning arced from the Emperor toward him. Revan tried to draw them in and contain them, but the Emperor was infinitely more powerful than Darth Nyriss had ever been.

In short, Tenebrous' Force defenses wouldn't be up to the task, and his lightsaber would be useless.

Sith Sorcery

Vitiate's application of Sith Sorcery is second to none in the Star Wars universe. Being so, he has more than a few tricks of his sleeve in the category of sorcery that could help work wonders in combat, such as, with a single sudden flash, he dispatched 12 of the most powerful Sith Lords, the Dark Council, at once:

He allowed their plan to play out, but when they gathered to confront the Emperor, his punishment was swift and devastating. Eleven members of the Dark Council died in a sudden flash on the steps of the Citadel. The last member Darth Lokess, disappeared forever, though for some centuries some claimed her screams could be heard from the bowels of the Citadel.

4. Vitiate TK/Force defense

I've already proven that do to scaling, Vitiate will be able to deflect/absorb Tenebrous lightning attacks with moderate difficulty, bu Tenebrous' TK will not be an advantage. Revan, someone powerful enough to ragdoll entire strike teams composed of the most powerful warriors in the galaxy, and called down monstrous asteroids in the midst of combat and possibly collapse skyscrapers in the right condition - was only able to slightly push Imperial Guard. The reason? Because even when drawing on a portion of the Emperors power, he was able to resist the attack:

Revan landed on the ground and wheeled around to face the other man. He thrust out with the Force, the impact hitting the soldier square in the chest. Instead of sending him flying, it only staggered him back half a step—this close to the Emperor they were sworn to protect, the guards were able to draw on his power to protect themselves.

-Excerpt from Revan

If Revan couldn't muster any kind of worthwhile damage Force push on a Imperial Guard, Tenebrous, with his inferior TK, isn't doing much either. Keep in mind, this also speaks volumes for Vitiates offensive applications of telekinesis, too.

___

Secondly, Vitiate was able to take a blast of pure Force energy, where Revan balanced both the light and dark sides of the Force, without so much of an injury. Keep in mind - much of Vitiate power was focused on mind dominating Revan, and not on defending:

Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form.

There was brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send Revan staggering.

[...]

The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan’s mind, was sent flying backward.

If an attack of that magnitude can only send Vitiate reeling with no other side-effects whatsoever, Tenebrous would be hard pressed to even damage Tenebrae in any worthwhile way.

___

So, in short, the venues for Vitiate winning is:

- He is most powerful, both in a combative and raw power sense

- Vitiate, at minimal, can cause problems for Tenebrous with is God-like telepathy

- Vitiate FLS will tear through any defense Tenebrous can muster, be it with a lightsaber, or a barrier

- Vitiate's Force defenses is sufficient to tank anything Tenebrous brings to the table

- Vitiate can win through some form of arcane sorcery, the same kind he used to one-shot the entire Dark Council body in one flash of light.

@Deronn solo
I know it's a Cav

but your use of this quote is taken out of context.

"Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless. At least this way Scourge was still alive to carry on their cause."

Revan was pretty much out of play at that point in time, when scourge was thinking about it in the present tense.
meaning Scourges visions don't apply, to this quote, as It was before Revan was hit by Vitiates force lightning storm.

Other than that, it's a pretty compelling argument. Maybe one or two things I could mention.

What? Scourge's visions about the outcome of the fight were taking place after Revan got hit by the lightning storm, and had gotten back up.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
@Deronn solo
I know it's a Cav

but your use of this quote is taken out of context.

"Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless. At least this way Scourge was still alive to carry on their cause."

Revan was pretty much out of play at that point in time, when scourge was thinking about it in the present tense.
meaning Scourges visions don't apply, to this quote, as It was before Revan was hit by Vitiates force lightning storm.

Other than that, it's a pretty compelling argument. Maybe one or two things I could mention.

This is completely inappropriate for a CaV. By its very nature it is a 1 v 1 debate, if someone uses a quote in a way you consider incorrect, that is irrelevant. It is only relevant if the debater is called on this misrepresentation by their opponent. In which case that becomes in and of itself a point of debate.

I would request that you and all other refrain from commenting upon the arguments being made by either debater.

(Mostly become this is incredibly entertaining and I want to see what happens, don't spoil it.)

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
What? Scourge's visions about the outcome of the fight were taking place after Revan got hit by the lightning storm, and had gotten back up.

👆

Exactly. I think he got text confused or some shit.

Damn DC,

Az best have something good ready as a response

I'll take a look at it later. On a sidenote, your two last posts are both titled "post 4"

My fault.

I miscalculated the lenth when I wrote this down, and instead of just 4 post, I had to make 5. I never fixed it in my numbering though, hence two 4's.

Oh hey, he responded. Good for him. Tear it down, Az. 🙂

Lol what Bane needed a cocoon/force shield to block one single lightsaber strike? Lmfao Ben in an injured state can just block it with his hand, holy shit Bane is ****ing weak

Originally posted by MythLord
Oh hey, he responded. Good for him. Tear it down, Az. 🙂

I will. Gimme a week.

Good shit DC 👆

By the way, how many posts should we have max? I'd say three per user is a fair number, or do you have alternate ideas? We could also leave the winner to a vote, although then socking becomes an issue. Perhaps we should assign unbiased judges?

As someone with a high opinion of both characters, I could probably be a reasonable judge. DMB would also be a pretty good choice, I think.

👆 lotta respect for both characters, think this would be a good fight. Don't have much of a stake in the victory of either side.

Originally posted by carthage
Lol what Bane needed a cocoon/force shield to block one single lightsaber strike? Lmfao Ben in an injured state can just block it with his hand, holy shit Bane is ****ing weak