Azog the Defiler vs. Gregor Clegane the Mountain

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Then I would suggest adjusting your tone a bit. The way you talk about defeating Dwarves makes it sound as though any chump could do it, when the actual films suggest otherwise.

Again, Dwarves have shown time and time again that they are perfectly capable of contending with opponents that have a reach advantage. IIRC, Gimli actually ended up with one more kill than Legolas at Helm's Deep, despite him not having any ranged weapons. And Azog is not the only opponent Thorin fought that had him in size either. Dwarf size has not been shown to seriously hamper them in 1-on-1 combat (at least not that I can recall), so Thorin being a Dwarf does not at all detract from the showings.

And, yes, Gregor is bigger, but he is also definitely way slower than Thorin was. Thorin used maneuverability against Azog, which is something Gregor sure as shit can't do.

If Azog was an Elf or Man slayer then he would be more respectable.

Am not saying dwarves are bad fighters, but they couldnt even get close to give Azog a proper fight!

https://youtu.be/olVsFS8Ajtk

Battle of Moria. Azog height gave him a HUGE advantage; as its usual. The Dwarves couldnt even get close to him, cause his long arms would send them back by that mace. So the dwarves short height does give them a disadvanatage.

Azog is fighting a big opponent this time. One with a big sword. Clegane wont be afraid of getting close to Azog. He will cut his way to him.

Dwarves are good fighters, but as seen in the video Azog had an easy fiht with them.

It reassembles the battle of the last Alliance, when Sauron was so tall he just sent all humans back with his mace. Size is always an advantage in a battle.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Oberyn is MUCH FASTER than any dwarf Azog has fought! So the comparisson doesnt support your point. Lol that Woman is WAY above Azog.

Brienne would **** Azog any time! Jaime too. Ned the same thing. Azog only has a chance against normal Clegane. Zombi Clegane rapes Azog. Simply to strong for Azog.

Lol Zombi version is much more durable! He received a mace to the chest and didnt even blink! Zombi Clegane is much more patient, also he seems to have no feelings. Its a Zombi. He could tale more than what normal Clegance could. And pay attention, cause normal clegane is a JUGGERNAUT.

Azog loses this. Zombi Gregor is to much for him.Azog only has one hand, which makes him even worst.

Nah, you just say any GoT character wins despite the lack of evidence. Who has zombie Clegane beat due to superior strength that was a credible opponent. He's killed zealots and regular people.

It didn't hit his skin iir .

This is Azog vs. Oberyn not Gregor.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based off what ? No one agrees.

Nah, you just say any GoT character wins despite the lack of evidence. Who has zombie Clegane beat due to superior strength that was a credible opponent. He's killed zealots and regular people.

It didn't hit his skin iir .

This is Azog vs. Oberyn not Gregor.

If you cant bring me proof that those dwarves can move as Oberyn does then i will reconsider. But i know you cant, cause no dwarf is as fast as Oberyn. Ive watched the movies.

Who has Azog defeated that is as big, strong, durable, and mighty as Zombi Gregor? Your logic can be used against you.

This is Azog vs Gregor lol.

Gregor decapitates Azog with his bear hands. Azog doesnt fill the requirements.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
If you cant bring me proof that those dwarves can move as Oberyn does then i will reconsider. But i know you cant, cause no dwarf is as fast as Oberyn. Ive watched the movies.

Who has Azog defeated that is as big, strong, durable, and mighty as Zombi Gregor? Your logic can be used against you.

This is Azog vs Gregor lol.

Gregor decapitates Azog with his bear hands. Azog doesnt fill the requirements.

More than Gregor has beaten. We don't know how durable Gregor is as a zombie either.

You mean bare hands but that's ridiculous. He'd get impaled if he dared try to manhandle the guy. Gregor killed a much smaller man Azog would make him feel small and weak. He's more muscular than Gregor is. He's a literal beast. Greater combat feats of strength. Gregor manhandles lightly claden, much smaller foes.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Oberyn didn't use blazing speed he was just a lot quicker than Gregor who was very slow in his full armor.

More than Gregor has beaten. We don't know how durable Gregor is as a zombie either.

You mean bare hands but that's ridiculous. He'd get impaled if he dared try to manhandle the guy. Gregor killed a much smaller man Azog would make him feel small and weak. He's more muscular than Gregor is. He's a literal beast. Greater combat feats of strength. Gregor manhandles lightly claden, much smaller foes.

He didnt use blazing speed, but he dodge like a ninja master! Oberyn is much more agile than any Dwarf seen on screen.

Durable enough to recieve a mace in the chest and not evev move! Normal gregor endured 2 spears, now imagine how much more will Zombi Gregor take.

Lol! Thats gonna be after he amputates both his shoulders (therefore Azog wont have limbs to put Swords on). Lol. Azog is a dwarf killer! Azog isnt gonna be as confident fighting a dude of his size! The Mountain is fearless! Lol! Which feats? Throwing dwarves with a mace? The Mountain could do it better.

Much smaller foes? Lol, since when are dwarves bigger than humans?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He didnt use blazing speed, but he dodge like a ninja master! Oberyn is much more agile than any Dwarf seen on screen.

Durable enough to recieve a mace in the chest and not evev move! Normal gregor endured 2 spears, now imagine how much more will Zombi Gregor take.

Lol! Thats gonna be after he amputates both his shoulders (therefore Azog wont have limbs to put Swords on). Lol. Azog is a dwarf killer! Azog isnt gonna be as confident fighting a dude of his size! The Mountain is fearless! Lol! Which feats? Throwing dwarves with a mace? The Mountain could do it better.

Much smaller foes? Lol, since when are dwarves bigger than humans?

Did it get past his armor ? That's his armor not his flesh.

Says who ? He killed an Orc easily and we see dwarves tear through human beings. Your claims these dwarves are weak isn't founded in the Lotr universe but some realistically based claim. Comparing Lotr super humans with humans is disastrous. The coordination and feats by these dwarves make the GoT look pitiful by comparison.

They have a lower center of gravity and are more muscular than Oberyn who is a tiny man who is a bigger target with a higher center of gravity. Gregor is a very slow target not that greatly skilled and just really strong. Azog has better combat strngth feats with his mace than Gregor does with his sword. Azog tears him up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I wouldn't say that I'd say he's look cool doing it but a lot of his dazzling elusiveness is unnecessary and wasted movement.

Did it get past his armor ? That's his armor not his flesh.

Says who ? He killed an Orc easily and we see dwarves tear through human beings. Your claims these dwarves are weak isn't founded in the Lotr universe but some realistically based claim. Comparing Lotr super humans with humans is disastrous. The coordination and feats by these dwarves make the GoT look pitiful by comparison.

They have a lower center of gravity and are more muscular than Oberyn who is a tiny man who is a bigger target with a higher center of gravity. Gregor is a very slow target not that greatly skilled and just really strong. Azog has better combat strngth feats with his mace than Gregor does with his sword. Azog tears him up.

1. I didnt say dwarves are weak. Read carefully. I said Dwarves size gives them a disadvantage against Azog. Azog long arms and his mace keeps the dwarves away. Azog has an advatage in size.

2. The Mountain wont give a **** about Azog Mace. He will move on with his huge sword and send the ***** to the ground! Then he will mutilate him.

3. LoTR humans are inferior to GoT ones.

4. They are also slower and less agile! Oberyn kills Azog, just like Gregor does.

5. Azog only uses his mace and brute force. Gregor is slow but HELL HE KNOWS HOW TO USE HIS SWORD!

6. Azog aint fast enough to dodge Gregor. Gregor is stronger, more resistant than Azog.

Conclusion. Zombi Gregor ****s azog.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1. I didnt say dwarves are weak. Read carefully. I said Dwarves size gives them a disadvantage against Azog. Azog long arms and his mace keeps the dwarves away. Azog has an advatage in size.

2. The Mountain wont give a **** about Azog Mace. He will move on with his huge sword and send the ***** to the ground! Then he will mutilate him.

3. LoTR humans are inferior to GoT ones.

Bullshit. The ones from the original trilogy would stomp a mud hole in the weak GoT humans. The entire universe is superior to GoT. All you have are numbers which will be cut down shortly.

4. They are also slower and less agile! Oberyn kills Azog, just like Gregor does.

5. Azog only uses his mace and brute force. Gregor is slow but HELL HE KNOWS HOW TO USE HIS SWORD!

6. Azog aint fast enough to dodge Gregor. Gregor is stronger, more resistant than Azog.

Conclusion. Zombi Gregor ****s azog. [/B]

5. Azog has shown superior skill and strength with his mace. He's disarmed Thorin right out of the gate and beaten him. Gregor made contact with Oberyn but didn't defeat him with an earned victory.

6. Based off what ? Gregor didn't even send Oberyn flying back and he's definitely stronger than him. Azog outweighs Oberyn and is far stronger. This needs to stop.

Azog skull ****s him. The showings, the combat strength, the combat skill all point to Azog.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Whixh can be overcome just as Oberyn overcame the size advantage of Gregor. Did he help Grefor or did Oberyn dominate him ?

Well then he's stupid. I agree he is dumb. Based on nothing. He hasn't done so to anyone credible.

Bullshit. The ones from the original trilogy would stomp a mud hole in the weak GoT humans. The entire universe is superior to GoT. All you have are numbers which will be cut down shortly.
4. Based on ? Baseless conclusion.

5. Azog has shown superior skill and strength with his mace. He's disarmed Thorin right out of the gate and beaten him. Gregor made contact with Oberyn but didn't defeat him with an earned victory.

6. Based off what ? Gregor didn't even send Oberyn flying back and he's definitely stronger than him. Azog outweighs Oberyn and is far stronger. This needs to stop.

Azog skull ****s him. The showings, the combat strength, the combat skill all point to Azog.

Oberyn is Fatser and more agile than those dwarves. Donr make me repeat myself. Furthermore, he had a SPEAR which compensated for the size disadvantage. Dwarves were ****ed by Azog because of their size!

Based on what? The original trilogy ones dont reach the level of humans like Jaime or Ned! But this thread doesnt concern this topic either way.

Lol! Give that mace to Gregor and he would shatter shields and crush elves instead of tossing them! Gregor smashed Oberyns head like if it was an egg! Gregor is stronger than Azog, that i can assure you.

Oberyn was using a spear to keep him away!

Azog gets butchered. Gregor is to strong. Gregor uses a sword, a huge one. Azog uses a Mace. Gregor sword will cut Azog into pieces. Azog mace will only punch Gregor's Chestplate.

Azog dies to this!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Oberyn is Fatser and more agile than those dwarves. Donr make me repeat myself. Furthermore, he had a SPEAR which compensated for the size disadvantage. Dwarves were ****ed by Azog because of their size!

Based on what? The original trilogy ones dont reach the level of humans like Jaime or Ned! But this thread doesnt concern this topic either way.

Lol! Give that mace to Gregor and he would shatter shields and crush elves instead of tossing them! Gregor smashed Oberyns head like if it was an egg! Gregor is stronger than Azog, that i can assure you.

Oberyn was using a spear to keep him away!

Azog gets butchered. Gregor is to strong. Gregor uses a sword, a huge one. Azog uses a Mace. Gregor sword will cut Azog into pieces. Azog mace will only punch Gregor's Chestplate.

Azog dies to this!

]

Those are the elites not the grunts. The regular armies showed far greater resistance than the GoT human level grunts.

False. Plus that isn't how debating works. We see Azog do so not Gregor. They don't switch weapons or feats. Speculation isn't the same thing as a fact.

Gregor wasn't too strong to defeat anyone competent thus far. Sandor went uo talked shit to him and he did nothing. When they eventually fight and Sandor wins you won't be able to say anything since they already fought pre zombie. Gregor showed no advantages then and he will lose. Can't wait.

Until then Azog's feats and combat showings are far greater than a guy who was decimated skill wise by a tiny man who isn't anywhere near as strong or powerful as Azog.

Azog rapes him.

Gregor loses to this guy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Debatable but he's less durable and far weaker than Thorin. Once you take away the spear he had no chance physically. Even then he couldn't afford any mistakes since his body is too weak to withstand even a punch from Gregor.

Those are the elites not the grunts. The regular armies showed far greater resistance than the GoT human level grunts.

False. Plus that isn't how debating works. We see Azog do so not Gregor. They don't switch weapons or feats. Speculation isn't the same thing as a fact.

Gregor wasn't too strong to defeat anyone competent thus far. Sandor went uo talked shit to him and he did nothing. When they eventually fight and Sandor wins you won't be able to say anything since they already fought pre zombie. Gregor showed no advantages then and he will lose. Can't wait.

Until then Azog's feats and combat showings are far greater than a guy who was decimated skill wise by a tiny man who isn't anywhere near as strong or powerful as Azog.

Azog rapes him.

Gregor loses to this guy.

Still, Oberyn is fast. He doesn't need durability if he won't get hit. On the other hand, the dwarves get maced by Azog.

I disagree.

Lol, Gregor is much stronger than Azog, what makes you think he can't hold a mace and send Dwarves flying away?

Lol. Azog isn't a competent rival for the Mountain. Simply he isn't

Azog isn't fast enough to dodge that sword, which means he will have to block. He can't keep the distance. The Mountain will punish him for that. Azog is missing an arm. Which doesn't help his case.

Azog has never fought someone like Gregor, who can take a lot. Gregor could probably take a mace to the chest and be just fine. On the other hand, Azog won't survive a sword swing to the chest!

Clegane is too big, too strong, and too resistant for Azog.

KO for Azog.

By the way, i am making a thread. I hope you can participate.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Still, Oberyn is fast. He doesn't need durability if he won't get hit. On the other hand, the dwarves get maced by Azog.

I disagree.

Lol, Gregor is much stronger than Azog, what makes you think he can't hold a mace and send Dwarves flying away?

Lol. Azog isn't a competent rival for the Mountain. Simply he isn't

Azog isn't fast enough to dodge that sword, which means he will have to block. He can't keep the distance. The Mountain will punish him for that. Azog is missing an arm. Which doesn't help his case.

Azog has never fought someone like Gregor, who can take a lot. Gregor could probably take a mace to the chest and be just fine. On the other hand, Azog won't survive a sword swing to the chest!

Clegane is too big, too strong, and too resistant for Azog.

KO for Azog.

By the way, i am making a thread. I hope you can participate.

He didn't send a lightly claden Oberyn so why would he send a much bulkier armor claden dwarf or two flying. Oberyn is very thin and wasn't wearing heavy armor to restrict his movement.

Saying he isn't a rival of the Mountain is simply speculative as the evidence doesn't even suggest the guy is a force in GoT. Azog is a king slayer which is a high praise in GoT.

Azog has fought superior foes than Gregor. Gregor possesses less skill and less combat strength with his weapon. He gets disarmed very quickly or impaled if he gets too close to Azog's left appendage.

Gregor didn't take much damage before laying flat on his back to Oberyn. When has he taken multiple stabbings and not had to play possum to come out on top ?

Azog buries him. Greater feats, greater skill, greater combat strength, and he actually lead an army. Gregor is some guy who lost to a queer in jousting and was embarrassed by his brother Sandor for his man tantrum.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He needs durability since he was hit and later killed. He has no room for error which makes his challenge very difficult.

He didn't send a lightly claden Oberyn so why would he send a much bulkier armor claden dwarf or two flying. Oberyn is very thin and wasn't wearing heavy armor to restrict his movement.

Saying he isn't a rival of the Mountain is simply speculative as the evidence doesn't even suggest the guy is a force in GoT. Azog is a king slayer which is a high praise in GoT.

Azog has fought superior foes than Gregor. Gregor possesses less skill and less combat strength with his weapon. He gets disarmed very quickly or impaled if he gets too close to Azog's left appendage.

Gregor didn't take much damage before laying flat on his back to Oberyn. When has he taken multiple stabbings and not had to play possum to come out on top ?

Azog buries him. Greater feats, greater skill, greater combat strength, and he actually lead an army. Gregor is some guy who lost to a queer in jousting and was embarrassed by his brother Sandor for his man tantrum.

Yeah but he loves challanges xd.

He did sent Oberyn flying with a kick! Lol. He can send dwarves flying, that is for sure.

Azog is a killer of dwarves which can't even touch them cause his long arms send them back flying! Azog is just an oversized orc with a bit of brains. By the time Clegane is over with him, he will be the size of a Dwarf and will less brains.

Which superior foes, you name them!? Appart from dwarves which can't even get close to him. Azog is a bully. Make him fight Aragorn or someone tall and he aint nothing.

Greater combat strenght? Where is the evidence behind that?

Azog's left appendage is good for nothing. Clegane's sword is big and thick enough to repel that mace. Meanwhile Clegane grabs Azog by the neck, and that is the end for that colorless orc.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yeah but he loves challanges xd.

He did sent Oberyn flying with a kick! Lol. He can send dwarves flying, that is for sure.

Azog is a killer of dwarves which can't even touch them cause his long arms send them back flying! Azog is just an oversized orc with a bit of brains. By the time Clegane is over with him, he will be the size of a Dwarf and will less brains.

Which superior foes, you name them!? Appart from dwarves which can't even get close to him. Azog is a bully. Make him fight Aragorn or someone tall and he aint nothing.

Greater combat strenght? Where is the evidence behind that?

Azog's left appendage is good for nothing. Clegane's sword is big and thick enough to repel that mace. Meanwhile Clegane grabs Azog by the neck, and that is the end for that colorless orc.

Azog is the leader of the orcs. This myth he can only kill dwarves is stretching reason and logic by a country mile. Azog is the leader of an army so he's tactically sound and battle tested.

Based off what ? We see Gimli more than hold his own in the fellowship. He kills on pace with Legolas whose primary weapon is a bow and arrows.

Disarming Thorin, sending dwarves flying, breaking through a sheet of ice while at freezing temperatures for a considerable amount of time.

I don't agree. He has ability to disarm his opponent which he's done. Gregor just broke his opponents spear which is not the same thing as the mace.

If he'd dare grab him he'd be stabbed since he has a built in blade into his left upper appendage.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
If Azog was an Elf or Man slayer then he would be more respectable.

Am not saying dwarves are bad fighters, but they couldnt even get close to give Azog a proper fight!

https://youtu.be/olVsFS8Ajtk

Battle of Moria. Azog height gave him a HUGE advantage; as its usual. The Dwarves couldnt even get close to him, cause his long arms would send them back by that mace. So the dwarves short height does give them a disadvanatage.

Azog is fighting a big opponent this time. One with a big sword. Clegane wont be afraid of getting close to Azog. He will cut his way to him.

Dwarves are good fighters, but as seen in the video Azog had an easy fiht with them.

It reassembles the battle of the last Alliance, when Sauron was so tall he just sent all humans back with his mace. Size is always an advantage in a battle.

Seriously? Dwarves have slain Men, Elves, Orcs, Uruk-hai, Giant Spiders etc. (opponents either equal or much larger than them). But yeah, killing them isn't respectable. 🙄

But a guy with barely any feats, who nearly died beating someone else with barely any feats, and who is visibly WAY slower than the guys Azog fought, is super impressive? Well, I can see that there will be no reasoning with you.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Seriously? Dwarves have slain Men, Elves, Orcs, Uruk-hai, Giant Spiders etc. (opponents either equal or much larger than them). But yeah, killing them isn't respectable. 🙄

But a guy with barely any feats, who nearly died beating someone else with barely any feats, and who is visibly WAY slower than the guys Azog fought, is super impressive? Well, I can see that there will be no reasoning with you.

Yes it would be! Those dwarves had no chance against Azog! Did you watched the scene when he was tossing them like dolls with his mace?

Does dwarves didnt even manage to scratch his legs!!

So don't come and tell me here that those dwarves are mighty opponents for Azog!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yes it would be! Those dwarves had no chance against Azog! Did you watched the scene when he was tossing them like dolls with his mace?

Does dwarves didnt even manage to scratch his legs!!

So don't come and tell me here that those dwarves are mighty opponents for Azog!

I think the point TheVaultDweller is making is that the Dwarves, while formidable opponents for anyone, were getting beaten by Azog, and if they could not do it (Which Thorin eventually did) then what chance does Gregor have?

Meaning they are loooking at that scene as a very high showing for Azog, not a low showing for the Dwarves.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I think the point TheVaultDweller is making is that the Dwarves, while formidable opponents for anyone, were getting beaten by Azog, and if they could not do it (Which Thorin eventually did) then what chance does Gregor have?

Meaning they are loooking at that scene as a very high showing for Azog, not a low showing for the Dwarves.

I understand his point very well! But i think HE is not understanding my point.

What is the point of being so strong and formidable if they can't even get close to Azog!? Their arms are too short to even SCRATCH AZOG!

Azog's size gives him a HUGE advantage over the dwarves, although this are so formidable!

Put Clegane in his place, and he might do the job better! Clegane is stronger and more durable than Azog.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I understand his point very well! But i think HE is not understanding my point.

What is the point of being so strong and formidable if they can't even get close to Azog!? Their arms are too short to even SCRATCH AZOG!

Azog's size gives him a HUGE advantage over the dwarves, although this are so formidable!

Put Clegane in his place, and he might do the job better! Clegane is stronger and more durable than Azog.

Ehhhhh no. They are short, but not that short. Thorin proves that Dwarves can fight larger opponents quite effectively. They aren't Tyrion levels of short.

But they did, proving that they are formidable fighters themselves.

Like I said, size is but one type of advantage. There are other types, such as smaller profile, swiftness, stoutness, stamina, expertise, all those things. Being large on it's own is not much of an advantage, especially if your foe is experienced in taking down foes larger than themselves, which, as you can imagine for Dwarves, is damn near every other race on Middle Earth 😛

Another maybe? And you are assuming Gregor is stringer or more durable. Given what Azog did during the fight with thorin, I'm actually more willing to give the strength edge to Azog. Gregor's best feat was crushing a skull. Azog's best strength frat, and durability feat mind you, was surviving an ice bath, then busting out from underneath the ice with no leverage relatively unscathed. I ask you, do you know how insane that kind of feat really is? It's far more difficult than crushing a skull...

Azog was chucking around that block of stone attached to the chain like a flail.