Originally posted by FrothByteBolg and Azog aren't equal IMO. In general the orcs in Warcraft were superior but this is Azog the greatest of the Lotr orcs. Why do you believe Blackhand wins ??
I seem to remember a Bolg vs. Durotan thread here somewhere... or maybe on another forum. Anyway, this turns out like that. The Warcraft orcs had better feats than LOTR orcs. Blackhand wins.
God damn film feats, quan. WoW Orks are larger amd strong enough to casually toss warhorses and Blackhand is one of the best of them, on top of being magically boosted.
Azog is an in-your-face brute of a fighter, he's going to charge in and that will cost him here, as he'd need to use his smaller size, any speed advantage and tactics to take down the larger and stronger Orc.
/killedanotherthread
Blackhand should win this. Even King Llane, who was handling normal Orcs pretty handily, rather let himself be killed by the half-Orc girl, because he knew he was screwed when Blackhand was coming after him. Only individual who bested Blackhand was Lothar, but Lothar >>>>> pretty much everyone else in that film (barring the spellcasters).
Originally posted by RobtardSo basically the orcs are generally more powerful so you believe this pertains to Azog who by far by film feats, portrayal, and Sauron's insistence for Azog to lead his armies of orcs.
God damn film feats, quan. WoW Orks are larger amd strong enough to casually toss warhorses and Blackhand is one of the best of them, on top of being magically boosted.Azog is an in-your-face brute of a fighter, he's going to charge in and that will cost him here, as he'd need to use his smaller size, any speed advantage and tactics to take down the larger and stronger Orc.
/killedanotherthread
He is a brute but he also showed more than competent in defending himself against Thorin's quicker strikes in the final film. He was a brute to Thorin since he was stronger and bigger but Bladkhand is slower and even more brutish in direct comparison to Azog. Azog will be much quicker and is more than stronger enough to cut him down.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerThat isn't necessarily true. He also knew the best chance at peace was if she killed him. I do agree Blackhand would have gotten him but he was dead no matter who was afforded the kill blow. It was better for peace if she did so at his behest.
Blackhand should win this. Even King Llane, who was handling normal Orcs pretty handily, rather let himself be killed by the half-Orc girl, because he knew he was screwed when Blackhand was coming after him. Only individual who bested Blackhand was Lothar, but Lothar >>>>> pretty much everyone else in that film (barring the spellcasters).
Originally posted by quanchi112
So basically the orcs are generally more powerful so you believe this pertains to Azog who by far by film feats, portrayal, and Sauron's insistence for Azog to lead his armies of orcs.He is a brute but he also showed more than competent in defending himself against Thorin's quicker strikes in the final film. He was a brute to Thorin since he was stronger and bigger but Bladkhand is slower and even more brutish in direct comparison to Azog. Azog will be much quicker and is more than stronger enough to cut him down.
Azog had a big advantage in strength and reach over Thorin but still had trouble with him. I don't see Azog pulling off moves like Lothar did against Blackhand. He tries to go toe to toe with Blackhand and he'll get overpowered.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That isn't necessarily true. He also knew the best chance at peace was if she killed him. I do agree Blackhand would have gotten him but he was dead no matter who was afforded the kill blow. It was better for peace if she did so at his behest.
Bottom line though is that he knew he was toast when Blackhand set his sights on him. Yes, having Garona kill him, and getting the rep, was a better alternative than Blackhand getting the glory, but he made that decision because he knew he was f***** either way. I am pretty sure that if he believed he could kill Blackhand, so that he himself could further go on and work at either victory or peace with the Orcs, he wouldn't have sacrificed himself. I mean we saw the respect Lothar got when he eventually took out Blackhand. If Llane had done it, it would have gone a long way in earning the admiration of the Orcs, which would only have strengthened his position.
Originally posted by quanchi112
So basically the orcs are generally more powerful so you believe this pertains to Azog who by far by film feats, portrayal, and Sauron's insistence for Azog to lead his armies of orcs.He is a brute but he also showed more than competent in defending himself against Thorin's quicker strikes in the final film. He was a brute to Thorin since he was stronger and bigger but Bladkhand is slower and even more brutish in direct comparison to Azog. Azog will be much quicker and is more than stronger enough to cut him down.
Nah. Azog loses this one. If it's out of 10, Azog maybe wins 3.
Originally posted by FrothByteThorin was a great warrior. The dwarves were badasses in the hobbit films. No, Azog wouldn't pull a move such as that but he wouldn't need to defeat Blackhand. He is quicker than Blackhand. He isn't going to stand still.
Azog had a big advantage in strength and reach over Thorin but still had trouble with him. I don't see Azog pulling off moves like Lothar did against Blackhand. He tries to go toe to toe with Blackhand and he'll get overpowered.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerHe was ****ed either way because the orcs had them pinned. Having Blackhand end him was a bad move so she was the better alternative. If they would have done the one on one duel sure but in combat overall they were all just tearing into each other. Lothar killed plenty of orcs but they weren't stopping to let him pass. They honored their traditions but I agree lane would have most likely have lost but he wasn't exceptional in my eyes either way.
Bottom line though is that he knew he was toast when Blackhand set his sights on him. Yes, having Garona kill him, and getting the rep, was a better alternative than Blackhand getting the glory, but he made that decision because he knew he was f***** either way. I am pretty sure that if he believed he could kill Blackhand, so that he himself could further go on and work at either victory or peace with the Orcs, he wouldn't have sacrificed himself. I mean we saw the respect Lothar got when he eventually took out Blackhand. If Llane had done it, it would have gone a long way in earning the admiration of the Orcs, which would only have strengthened his position.
Azog would go right the **** at Blackhand. He wouldn't hesitate for a moment.
Originally posted by KingD19He killed plenty of dwarves. Thorin wasn't just some dwarf you pile of shit. Lothar made short work of Blackhand despite the amp. The guy was killed instantly in embarrassing fashion. Azog would kill the horse and then follow that up with Blackhands death.
So a guy who couldn't take out a dwarf after several minutes vs a guy who normally would have stomped the second best human fighter in the movie and is amped even further?Black hand throws a horse at him.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He was ****ed either way because the orcs had them pinned. Having Blackhand end him was a bad move so she was the better alternative. If they would have done the one on one duel sure but in combat overall they were all just tearing into each other. Lothar killed plenty of orcs but they weren't stopping to let him pass. They honored their traditions but I agree lane would have most likely have lost but he wasn't exceptional in my eyes either way.Azog would go right the **** at Blackhand. He wouldn't hesitate for a moment.
Why are you still arguing if we both agree Blackhand > King Llane? Also, I never said they would just let him pass. I said it would earn him rep. Just like it would earn Blackhand rep to kill him in return. Hence why he rather let Garona kill him, and let her get the rep and glory. The Orcs respect strength. Never mind that taking out one of the generals of a hostile force is usually a good thing for your side.
Also, Llane not being exceptional is your opinion. To me, the fact that he was the only human other than Lothar who was handling the Orcs pretty comfortably overall, while virtually all his men were getting trashed 1-on-1, says that he was significantly above average.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerWell Blackhand didn't beat him so who cares ?
Why are you still arguing if we both agree Blackhand > King Llane? Also, I never said they would just let him pass. I said it would earn him rep. Just like it would earn Blackhand rep to kill him in return. Hence why he rather let Garona kill him, and let her get the rep and glory. The Orcs respect strength. Never mind that taking out one of the generals of a hostile force is usually a good thing for your side.Also, Llane not being exceptional is your opinion. To me, the fact that he was the only human other than Lothar who was handling the Orcs pretty comfortably overall, while virtually all his men were getting trashed 1-on-1, says that he was significantly above average.
Lothar was pretty good but then again so was Thorin. In the films the dwarves were beating on the orcs save Azog who humiliated them countless times himself. Azog and Bolg were far superior to the Lotr standard Orc as well.
What did Blackhand do that impressed you in the film ?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Well Blackhand didn't beat him so who cares ?Lothar was pretty good but then again so was Thorin. In the films the dwarves were beating on the orcs save Azog who humiliated them countless times himself. Azog and Bolg were far superior to the Lotr standard Orc as well.
What did Blackhand do that impressed you in the film ?
It matters, because a guy who can handle Orcs normally felt like he would get murdered, so it says volumes about the Orc in question.
And that's the point. The Humans were not beating the Orcs, save for Lothar and King Llane, which shows just how exceptional those two were. Regular Orcs getting defeated by other armies is nothing new. They only ever seem to do well when they have a notable numerical advantage and/or prep. So, that in itself doesn't say much. Also never said Azog and Bolg were just regular fodder either. It's obvious they were a step above the other Orcs.
But Blackhand was also clearly portrayed as being superior compared to the other Warcraft Orcs. He was one of the clan chiefs which, in a society where Might means Right pretty much rules, says a hell of a lot. The other Orcs were beating the humans, but they still had to put some fight in. Blackhand was taking them out casually, almost like an afterthought. He literally took out a fully armoured soldier, using nothing but a backhand. He also stomped Lothar's son, who was probably portrayed as the 3rd most skilled human fighter, after Llane and Lothar himself. Not to mention he was actually the Orc that tossed the horse, showcasing massive strength. And that was before he got the Fel amp.