Exar Kun vs Darth Caedus

Kun was as powerful as Nadd's spirit when he destroyed him, and screamed across the galaxy in triumph, so Exar Kun massively pre-prime can one-shot Sunrider with Telepathy, trap Arca Jeth in a Sith spell, control the minds of millions and turn the entirety of Onderon into an unusually powerful Dark Side nexus at whim.

Then Exar Kun became extremely powerful, using Sith Sorcery to unleash unchained raw power. Then he leaves to face Ulic, after which they both gain tremendous powers until they return several years later.

Kun, already the darkest power in the galaxy, kills Odan-Urr and takes the Dark Holocron, an object unrivalled among Sith Holocrons and which made him grow in power at an ever increasing rate until he became the most powerful Sith in history, far more powerful than even his apprentice.

So Exar Kun is so far above controlling millions and one shotting some of the most powerful Jedi of his day that these are basically low showings for him.

Caedus has nothing.

Apart from > Vader who ragdolled Starkiller. So he still wins yeah.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Apart from > Vader who ragdolled Starkiller.

And way to put the "Bane > Ambria" accolade into perspective there, AP.

Why when he ragdolled the clone. 😬

Never did anything of the sort.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Apart from > Vader who ragdolled Starkiller. So he still wins yeah.

Kun >> Muur > Vader.

Some drastic underselling of the opposition on both sides here.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Never did anything of the sort.

Kun >> Muur > Vader.

I'm also wondering exactly how Caedus > Vader > Starkiller is relevant to Kun at all. Exar Kun's canonical superiority to Muur, and the fact that Vector states Muur is strong enough to stop Vader, is pretty damn solid.

19 BBY Vader, though.

Given the major chain of power jumps from Muur to Kun, I'm failing to see how Vader's increases really make up for that.

Prime Muur </~ Ajunta Pall < Marka Ragnos < Freedon Nadd < Exar Kun.

Better yet:

Prime Muur </~ Ajunta Pall < Marka Ragnos << Post-Nathema Vitiate << Pre-Revan Vitiate < Exar Kun.

I have Kun above Vader. RotJ Vader is more powerful than Muur, though. I'd wager he's somewhere between Ragnos and Kun.

Also, what's the proof for Nadd's superiority to Ragnos again?

He's stated to become the greatest Sith sorcerer given time, this was stated a century before his prime. With ancient Sith Lords, Sorcery basically is the bar to measure them by.

There is no concrete evidence that Marka > Pall. There is no concrete evidence that Pall > Muur. There isn't even concrete evidence that Nadd > Marka kek. So let's stop pretending that Kun benefits from any kind of chain at all. 🙁

On the other hand yeah, Vader dominated Marek in the Force:

Meanwhile, on the far side of the galaxy, the Sith Empire has grown powerful through centuries of dark Force wielding and magic and the hundred-year rule of the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith, MARKA RAGNOS.
- Chronicles of the Old Republic

His rule is confirmed to be based on power:

Strength, power and strategy marked the rule of Marka Ragnos.
- Star Wars The Old Republic Codex Entry: The Tomb of Marka Ragnos

Ragnos > Pall.

Ajunta Pall beheaded their ruler, Hakagram Graush, and claimed the throne as the blood heir to the ancestral King Adas -- and we became his Shadow Hands.
- Book of the Sith

A Shadow Hand's expertise in cruelty, trickery and the dark side are second only to the Master.
- Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

Furthermore:

Certain Jedi turned to the dark side, and when defeated, they fled the civilized galaxy and conquered the primitive species -- the Sith. They made themselves Lords of the Sith, and named the greatest among them the Dark Lord.
- The New Essential Guide to Character

Pall > Muur, the only thing you can try and argue is that Muur became an equal, nothing indicated he ever surpassed him however. The closest we have Is a quote stating they were rivals over the mantle of Dark Lord.

He only needed time to become the greatest Sith sorcerer that had ever existed.
- Tales of the Jedi Companion

Nadd is a greater sorcerer than Marka Ragnos and we don't even know if this was prime Nadd or an earlier incarnation. Given sorcery's supreme import among the Sith Lords of old, this is as good as a direct power quote.

The mental capacity to comprehend this shouldn't be beyond a fifth grader. Though we both know the real reason you're trying to claim otherwise.

😂

1. I see three things Ragnos' rule was based on there darling, in which respect I agree, Ragnos' greatness was predicated on a set of holistic traits, not just sheer Force ability.

2. In the beginning, before his "Shadow Hands" turned against him and his authority crumbled into civil war, with all of the Exiles, Pall including, coveting the secrets of the others. Haven't I explained this to you already?

3. And no I'm afraid Nadd being a greater sorcerer than Ragnos doesn't preclude the later being more powerful. Regardless of whether it was more prominent, spells and rituals will always play second fiddle to raw power.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The mental capacity to comprehend this shouldn't be beyond a fifth grader. Though we both know the real reason you're trying to claim otherwise.

Sticking your head in the ground again doesn't constitute an argument. 😂

Concession accepted, dear.

You're not Ant and never will be. 😂

Thank god for that lmao.

Caedus
Kun
Kun