Originally posted by Azronger
Revan is better than Jedi Ulic and Kun. That's it. Trying to twist it so that it applies to prime versions would assume they all grew equally, which is an unproven notion. Kun > Ulic > Vitiate > Revan, as per canonical sources. Fact.
Revan (Reborn) >>>> Revan (MW-LB) > any Jedi in history.
No source declares Exar Kun being stronger than Revan. Forget Vitiate.
Your assumption is bullshit.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD😂
Mandalorian Wars have nothing to do with the quote in question.Revan is explicitly the strongest member of the Jedi Order by that point in time - battle of Malachor V.
The quote in question is discussing Revan's prowess during the Mandalorian Wars. Dead Jedi like Nomi & Ulic are completely irrelevant.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
😂The quote in question is discussing Revan's prowess during the Mandalorian Wars. Dead Jedi like Nomi & Ulic are completely irrelevant.
Revan was stronger than any Jedi in history by the time he fought the Mandalore. I know this upsets you but you will come to terms with it. 👆
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Actually the equation is like this:Revan (Reborn) >>>> Revan (MW-LB) > any Jedi in history.
No source declares Exar Kun being stronger than Revan. Forget Vitiate.
Your assumption is bullshit.
😂
No, but they do declare Exar Kun being stronger than Vitiate. Dry those tears, lmao.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your reaching is indeed amusing. But unfortunately no, the statement in question makes no mention of history nor do the contexts necessitate such a baseless assumption. He was the most powerful champion the Jedi had to offer at the time, nothing more. 👆
Revan is stated to be the Jedi Order's most powerful champion. In this case, Jedi Order's history can be safely assumed. Sorry.
Revan couldn’t actually remember any of his battles against the Mandalorians; they were buried in the part of his mind that had been locked away when the Jedi Council turned him against Malak. But he had studied up on his own history enough to fill in the missing details from Canderous’s narrative.In battle after battle, Revan had led the Jedi and Republic forces to victory. Realizing defeat was inevitable, Mandalore the Ultimate had challenged Revan to single combat, and Revan had accepted.
Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order’s most powerful champion.
-- The Old Republic: Revan
The context of the quote makes it clear that it's referring only to present Jedi, and possibly only the Jedi involved in the Mandalorian Wars (which would exclude the Council, etc).
It says "the Jedi Order's most powerful champion". In this case, "champion" means someone who is taking up a cause — in other words, Revan is the most powerful of all in the Jedi Order who decided to go to war with the Mandalorians. That excludes the Council but includes Alek, Arren Kae and Meetra Surik.
Not sure what you're laughing at. Any other definition of "champion" would be redundant because of the "most powerful" phrase. That'd be like saying he was the most powerful [being who was most powerful]. That doesn't make sense.
The preceding sentence discusses Revan leading Jedi into battle against the Mandalorians. Hence, "most powerful champion" means Revan was the greatest of those who went to war with the Mandalorians — the most powerful champion of that Revanchist cause, which, of course, was derived from warriors of the Jedi Order.
Of course, as I said, that's only one interpretation, but the more I think of it, the more likely it is.
I'm waiting for Ant and other Revan fanboys to start their bashing, but it's kind of irrelevant since Revan doesn't even need this accolade to put him above the Council or any of the other names I mentioned above. KotOR II made that clear already.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Not sure what you're laughing at. Any other definition of "champion" would be redundant because of the "most powerful" phrase. That'd be like saying he was the most powerful [being who was most powerful]. That doesn't make sense.The preceding sentence discusses Revan leading Jedi into battle against the Mandalorians. Hence, "most powerful champion" means Revan was the greatest of those who went to war with the Mandalorians — the most powerful champion of that Revanchist cause, which, of course, was derived from warriors of the Jedi Order.
Of course, as I said, that's only one interpretation, but the more I think of it, the more likely it is.
I'm waiting for Ant and other Revan fanboys to start their bashing, but it's kind of irrelevant since Revan doesn't even need this accolade to put him above the Council or any of the other names I mentioned above. KotOR II made that clear already.
By definition, a "champion" is either someone who has surpassed everyone else (ie. the best) or someone who takes up a cause. If we go by the former definition, it's redundant because it's saying he's the best twice. He's the strongest [person who has surpassed everyone else]. It makes no sense.
The other definition is that Revan has taken up the cause of fighting the Mandalorians. Others have as well, so they are all "champions", but Revan was obviously the most powerful of them all. And we have reason to believe that it's this definition because the preceding sentence mentions Revan leading Jedi and Republic forces into battle against the Mandalorians.
So that quote doesn't prove anything, but it's not necessary to begin with. KotOR II has already established Revan as being greater than any other Jedi of that time.
That's my point. You wouldn't have redundant words in a published work, lol (although Drew is a shit writer).
You're literally proving my point. The first definition of champion doesn't work because the word becomes superfluous. Therefore, it's the second definition by default. It only counts the part of the Jedi Order that was involved in the war, not the entirety of the Order. 👆
"He came to me, yes. Both before and after, before Revan knew herself. And after, in the times when Revan was coming into his own and learning he was more than he had been told. At one time, Revan was my Padawan. In times past, long ago. But Revan, when he had learned all he could, had other masters: that fool Zhar, and other Jedi on other planets. He learned from each. But in the end, he turned back to me. When he realized there was nothing more to be learned from the Jedi - except how one could leave them forever."-- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
Revan has learned everything the Jedi know. So there's no knowledge gap. And of course, he wields more raw power than any other Jedi (do I really need quotes for this?). It's clear that he's beyond any Jedi already.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
^^^I didn't knew Revan was lacking in raw power back then. 🙄
Nobody said that at any point. I even acknowledged that Revan's superiority to all of the Jedi is made blatantly clear in KotOR II. All I said is that this quote doesn't refer to the same thing.
Head out of your arse, please.