Originally posted by SunRazer
In the script.
Unless there are more information I don't know about, there's no such thing in the script. This feat also happens on a nexus.
[Handmaiden attacks, Kreia barely moves, deftly avoiding every blow, then gets bored, and grabs the Handmaiden by the throat, or in a Force Crush.]
Yeah, she "barely moves" but manages to dodge all of the attacks and literally gets bored doing it. I'd say that's a blitz-tier difference.
And Brianna can be dark-sided and it'll still happen. After all, Marr's feat also happens on a DS nexus, so there's literally no reason to excuse one feat but keep the other.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, she "barely moves" but manages to dodge all of the attacks and literally gets bored doing it. I'd say that's a blitz-tier difference.
It's a blitz tier but your affirmation that Brianna couldn't even see Traya moving doesn't have support in the script.
And Brianna can be dark-sided and it'll still happen. After all, Marr's feat also happens on a DS nexus, so there's literally no reason to excuse one feat but keep the other.
Marr and Lachris are both dark side users in the storyline, Surik and her companions are canonicaly light sided characters.
1. That's not what I said. I said she barely appears to move, which is in the script. In either case, if it's a blitz-tier difference then we're in agreement. We don't need to debate the semantics; Traya is fully capable of keeping up, or rather matching, Marr's speed.
2. Doesn't matter what's canon; it only matters what's possible. Traya is clearly just too fast for Brianna, LS or DS.
As in, does Brianna get stronger? Presumably, yeah.
But that just makes it more impressive for Kreia... the point I'm trying to make is that the nexus doesn't matter because this is an event that happens regardless of alignment. It's clearly meant to be a case of Kreia simply outclassing Brianna, not the environment favouring one or the other.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. That's not what I said.
Originally posted by SunRazer😮
When she effortlessly dodged all of Brianna's strikes without appearing to move to her.
In either case, if it's a blitz-tier difference then we're in agreement. We don't need to debate the semantics; Traya is fully capable of keeping up, or rather matching, Marr's speed.
Marr actually semmed to disappear before Lachris' eyes, to the point she tried to detect his presence. While featless, her accolades, among others includes: "a powerful Sith Lord", "she's never failed in war" and "she's a warrior at heart". The last two accolades implies a certain degree of combat proficiency. I can live with your admission of parity, though. 🙂
2. Doesn't matter what's canon; it only matters what's possible. Traya is clearly just too fast for Brianna, LS or DS.
There's a difference in what's canon and what's used for gameplay and entertainment purposes, like the DS playthrough but, in general, I agree with you.
1. Would it be more apt to say "without appearing to move to us"?
2. Yeah, none of that even puts her on par with Atris, never mind Brianna (who matched her before growing stronger).
3. That's not gameplay. It's a cutscene that happens regardless of alignment; ergo, Kreia's just that much better than her.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Would it be more apt to say "without appearing to move to [b]us"?[/b]
Traya clearly moves to us. You should just admit you overexaggerated a bit. 😛
2. Yeah, none of that even puts her on par with Atris, never mind Brianna (who matched her before growing stronger).
I'm an Atris wanker myself, so I agree with you. 🙂 Matched more or less, 'cause she got one-shotted by her lightning.
3. That's not gameplay. It's a cutscene that happens regardless of alignment; ergo, Kreia's just that much better than her.
What I'm saying is that when you have a definite canon storyline for KotOR, the DS playthrough serves only the purpose to provide entertainment. You can say that it represent an alternate possibility and I'm going to agree with you but I don't consider the events that happens on it's playthrough to have the same importance as the canon one.
Originally posted by SunRazer
As in, does Brianna get stronger? Presumably, yeah.But that just makes it more impressive for Kreia... the point I'm trying to make is that the nexus doesn't matter because this is an event that happens regardless of alignment. It's clearly meant to be a case of Kreia simply outclassing Brianna, not the environment favouring one or the other.
Originally posted by SunRazer
When she effortlessly dodged all of Brianna's strikes without appearing to move to her.And unlike Lachris, Brianna actually has speed/combat feats, and has contended with some of the most skilled Force wielders in the mythos.
Darth Lachris was among the strongest Sith of her time, with history of great success in the battlefield until she met the Emperor's Wrath.
Brianna is just a glorified Echani trainee of little consequence to the story of KoTOR II and the war of her time.
lol If you think Lachris would matter in an era with the likes of Nihilus, the Exile, Traya etc. then you're sadly mistaken. If not, then there was no point in bringing up Brianna's relative inconsequentiality to her time.
Atris was more skilled than Kavar, who himself was a skilled master of Forms IV-VII, one of the greatest warriors of his age, and factually one of the most skilled Force wielders. This is before Atris studies from dozens of Sith holocrons whose teachings gave Kreia the insight necessary to judge Tulak Hord's skills to be far beyond those of anybody in her own time. And Brianna stalemates Atris, then gets stronger before confronting Traya.
Lachris has no feats and her only accolade of note is an ambiguous "having never failed in war". But we don't know who she's gone up against; certainly she isn't known to have fought anybody of note. So nothing on par with Brianna here in the slightest, who has contended with some of the factual best in the mythos. And Lachris dies to the Barsen'thor, not the Wrath.
Quote for Lachris being one of the strongest Sith of her time?
This is Lachris, not the Wrath. On what basis is Lachris a match for the Wrath? Certainly nothing mentioned in the post that I was responding to, which is why I said "none of that puts her on par with Atris".
What does Surik have to do with anything? She'd beat Lachris easily as well.
Your silly quizzical faces are insubstantial substitutes for genuine arguments. Show a few actual points, or piss off.
Originally posted by SunRazer
lol If you think Lachris would matter in an era with the likes of Nihilus, the Exile, Traya etc. then you're sadly mistaken. If not, then there was no point in bringing up Brianna's relative inconsequentiality to her time.
A powerful Sith Lord with a despotic temperament, Darth Lachris has never failed in war. Her successes in the Empire’s battles have brought her to Balmorra, where she faces the challenge of putting down a resistance that has remained one step ahead of the military since the fight for the planet began. Darth Lachris is sharp and wary, expecting a scheme behind every action her enemies take. Trained by Dark Council member Darth Marr, she is a warrior at heart with an embittered understanding of political necessity–and a lust for all the galaxy’s bloody pleasures.
Taken from Codex entry titled "Darth Lachris."
See that description? She was not only a great warrior but she also had the intellect and cunning to decipher moves of her enemies in advance and other realities.
That is a winning combination for a Sith; muscle on its own is not enough.
---
Under tutelage of Darth Traya, we cannot rule out the possibility that Darth Lachris would have overthrown her in time and schemed to take down the rest.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Atris was more skilled than Kavar, who himself was a skilled master of Forms IV-VII, one of the greatest warriors of his age, and factually one of the most skilled Force wielders. This is before Atris studies from dozens of Sith holocrons whose teachings gave Kreia the insight necessary to judge Tulak Hord's skills to be far beyond those of anybody in her own time. And Brianna stalemates Atris, then gets stronger before confronting Traya.
No matter how much you try to hype Atris, she lost to Meetra Surik in a duel and we know that even Surik is not a match for a member of the Dark Council and/or some of the more notable Sith of the Empire.
Not trying to cheapen Surik here (I never do) but KoTOR II characters are like over-glorified mooks in the larger scheme of things.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Lachris has no feats and her only accolade of note is an ambiguous "having never failed in war". But we don't know who she's gone up against; certainly she isn't known to have fought anybody of note. So nothing on par with Brianna here in the slightest, who has contended with some of the factual best in the mythos. And Lachris dies to the Barsen'thor, not the Wrath.Quote for Lachris being one of the strongest Sith of her time?
Fair enough to Barsen'thor part. And that is lot of firepower to bring Darth Lachris down. I am sorry but Atris doesn't holds a candle to these guys.