Vitiate/Vaylin (Limitations shed) vs. Yoda/ROTS Sidious

Originally posted by Azronger
It's not a myth; it's been known about since 2010:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=16m20s&v=e6zIfCrWYsw

Anyhow, reducing a defenseless being to a pile of ash with FL is not an epic showing. This is nothing in comparison to examples I cited.

Originally posted by Azronger
Also, here's Vader's feat:

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/5461921-4617679201-fzpJ7.jpg

It seems like an esoteric power. Much of the body armor remained intact.

Nonetheless, these are utterly useless examples to cite in comparison to those that I have brought forth.

We also have an example of nearly atomizing some assassins with a wave of Dark Side energy but could he do that to let's say Darth Venamis?

Try to understand that even an average Force-user has vastly superior defenses than a normal person in Star Wars and it almost impossible to vaporize one with largely standard applications. Only the greatest Force powers are expected to vaporize a powerful Force-user like Senya in an instant, powers that can devastate entire worlds. Scientifically, you would need a nuclear weapon to achieve same result.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
1. Integrity is everything, dude. He did not atomize it, he blew it apart into a billion pieces.

2. It is premature to boast that the segment of the Starship that Starkiller blew apart, was larger than the structure that Vaylin tore apart in the absence of a visual comparison. That segment was relatively much smaller. And integrity of the structure that Vaylin tore apart wasn't compromised.

3. Starkiller's showing is for from being a standout. Blowing a significantly compromised Starship structure apart is not the same as doing that to a healthy Starship structure.

Please revisit this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t631972.html

Vaylin would replicate Starkiller's showings with relative ease.

Darth Plagueis took advantage of the circumstances that Darth Tenebrous found himself in at that moment, struggling to prevent those slabs from crushing the Starship and himself beneath. Darth Plagueis was lucky in the sense that he was not in the danger zone and he had the luxury to sabotage Darth Tenebrous's effort.

The novel offers an explanation of Darth Tenebrous's failure:

His success in bringing the ceiling down on Tenebrous was proof enough that the Bith had grown sluggish and expendable. Otherwise, he would have divined the true source of the danger he had sensed, and Plagueis would be the one pressed to the floor of the grotto, head cracked open like an egg and chest cavity pierced by the pointed end of a fallen stalactite.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: Darth Plagueis

Darth Tenebrous was past his prime. Outcome would have been different otherwise.[/b]

Your point is entirely devoid of the details attached to this development on the whole.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Same difference, lmao. The point being he wrought infinitely greater destruction on a larger object than Vaylin. End of. And if he's capable of generating a force that can obliterate the ship, it wouldn't matter if it were more intact or not. Apply common sense.

And as I pointed out earlier, integrity is everything. That starship was in the process of disintegration with huge chunks falling apart and significant cracks forming everywhere. It had become much easier for Starkiller to blow apart the remainder of it into a billion pieces at that point (from within). However, could he do that to a healthy starship of that size and class under normal circumstances? NO.

If Starkiller was capable of feats like that under normal circumstances, he would have wrecked Darth Vader in a duel at a later stage, but reality is different. Starkiller's showings give a superficial impression of excellence in strength but on a closer look, he exploited the circumstances and/or vulnerabilities of the target to his advantage in each case. He had a tactical mindset.

Vaylin, on the other hand, tore apart a massive structure in its healthy state. Not just that but she held the massive chunks suspended in the air and chugged them like missiles towards a nearby building. Holistically, this feat is a superior demonstration of raw power than Starkiller's at any point of his existence.

Nonetheless, I am not sure why Starkiller was brought into this discussion. Point is that Vaylin would easily replicate a showing of Yoda that you pointed out as an example.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Half a 300m ship, that's 150 meters. Or about 50 stories. You pegged Vaylin's feat at around 15-20 stories. It's bigger.

That estimation is absolutely conservative to be honest, that structure is actually 25 stories tall (I have seen it from an angle that proves this) and I will make a correction in the blog accordingly. Now, take a look at the structure in question:

It has enormous mas (length x width).

The starship in question does not have a mass like that, it is relatively longer only but width is much less. Unfortunately, image posted by DarthAnt66 is down or I have shown you.

Still, argument is about integrity/durability of the structures and Vaylin gets the nod in this matter. Vaylin would blow that Starship apart into a billion chunks in its healthy state and original size because her growth is substantial since she destroyed that huge power core.

In short, Starkiller gets the boot on his @ss. 😂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sure she would. Sadly that would only make her 'Killer's equal. 😂

Yoda is also Starkiller's equal for absorbing Palpatine's Force Lightning for a limited period of time. 😉

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Never said otherwise. Tenebrous was still to slow to even register what had hit him. Despite lesser Force users having sub-light reactions. Ergo. Plagueis moved them at immense speed.

Plagueis lauding up his victory despite just prior having been outdone by his master in speed and Force defenses has the objective quality and accuracy of zero. 😆

Naturally, lmfao.

I think it's more to do with Plagueis calling down the slabs before Tenebrous could react. The debris was massive (multiple times the approximate size of a cathedral's ceiling) and Plagueis was hugely pre-prime, which makes it all the more impressive.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Atomizing and blowing an object apart are two distinct levels of destruction. In the case of atomizing, the object would be eliminated in such a way that no trace of it will be left. In the case of blowing apart, you have a billion pieces to count afterwards. 😂

And as I pointed out earlier, integrity is everything. That starship was in the process of disintegration with huge chunks falling apart and significant cracks forming everywhere. It had become much easier for Starkiller to blow apart the remainder of it into a billion pieces at that point (from within). However, could he do that to a healthy starship of that size and class under normal circumstances? NO.

If Starkiller was capable of feats like that under normal circumstances, he would have wrecked Darth Vader in a duel at a later stage, but reality is different.

Starkiller's showings give a superficial impression of excellence in strength but on a closer look, he exploited the circumstances and/or vulnerabilities of the target to his advantage in each case. He had a tactical mindset.

Vaylin, on the other hand, tore apart a massive structure in its healthy state.

Not just that but she held the massive chunks suspended in the air and chugged them like missiles towards a nearby building. Holistically, this feat is a superior demonstration of raw power than Starkiller's at any point of his existence.

Nonetheless, I am not sure why Starkiller was brought into this discussion. Point is that Vaylin would easily replicate a showing of Yoda that you pointed out as an example.

My bad.

That estimation is absolutely conservative to be honest, that structure is actually 25 stories tall (I have seen it from an angle that proves this) and I will make a correction in the blog accordingly. Now, take a look at the structure in question:

It has enormous mas (length x width).

The starship in question does not have a mass like that, it is relatively longer only but width is much less. Unfortunately, image posted by DarthAnt66 is down or I have shown you.

But here's a recreated image for you:

Not remotely as sizeable, even if she had TK'ed the entire building. 😱

Still, argument is about integrity/durability of the structures and Vaylin gets the nod in this matter. Vaylin would blow that Starship apart into a billion chunks in its healthy state and original size because her growth is substantial since she destroyed that huge power core.

In short, Starkiller gets the boot on his @ss. 😂

Right.

Yoda is also Starkiller's equal for absorbing Palpatine's Force Lightning for a limited period of time.

Save the witty rejoiners for those with more than half a wit darling.

Not trying to cheapen it but this is something that Vaylin can manage comfortably.

And I'm guessing you missed my response on the preivous page, but that's OK. There's nothing for you to add but concessions anyway. 🙂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Wrong I'm afraid, to two witnesses of the feat, Vader is described as the most powerful Force user they'd ever known:

Emphasis mine. Darth Vader was an intimidating figure (with considerable strength and understanding of the ways of the Force) and he was the enforcer-er of Palpatine's will on top of that - much more visible on the frontlines than Palpatine - so it shall come as no surprise that some people perceived Darth Vader as the most powerful Force-user in the galaxy. In other words, those perceptions are grounded in FEAR.

Take a look at the perceptions about German war-machine during WW-II by the time it had conquered much of Europe and vast swaths of land in Africa and Russia. Some perceived it to be virtually unstoppable; FEAR was wide-spread and myths of its invincibility were circulating around. Then Stalingrad happened.

Unfortunately for you, nobody had a clear idea what Kajin Savaros was truly capable of.

"The depths of this young adept's powers are unknown, which is to say they are incalculable." (Darth Vader)

Darth Vader's judgement is to the point.

In his entire tenure as an Inquisitor, Tesla had never seen the Force used in such a way. (Inquisitor Tesla)

Tesla could not believe it when he noticed atomization of a fellow inquisitor. And he literally fled after witnessing that.

Savaros is an untrained Force-adept whose powers aren't fully realized yet. On the other hand, Darth Vader is a master of the Dark Side of the Force. However, Savaros's capabilities continued to surprise everybody, to the point that even Darth Vader himself deemed his powers/potential as incalculable.

Problem? Savaros was too volatile for formal training and his powers weren't fully realized. Case closed.

In short:

"The boy is freakishly powerful and untrained." (Den Dhur)

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Orly?

They looked vaporised to me. mmm

His lightsaber was lit before he hit the deck, ready to deflect the shots fired his way by the contingent of troopers sent to investigate their landing. The Force guided his arm-no, the Force was his arm. That was how it felt to him. During moments such as these, he was purely a vessel for the dark side. It rushed through him like wine down the neck of a bottle, joyous with release and the promise of more to come. His blade drew glowing lines through the air, casting energy bolts back at the troopers who'd fired them, sending them sprawling in a shower of sparks.

A dozen open-helmeted men and women in brown combat uniforms-Kota's insurgents, the apprentice presumed-came down the hangar's primary access corridor, sealing the blast door behind them. Baring his teeth, he ran to meet them, eager to take the offensive. Their rifles were no match for the power of the Force. A single, powerful push scattered them like dolls. One he blasted with lightning. A second he choked until all consciousness fled. A third he swept up and pounded against the nearest bulk-head. The rest he dismembered with graceful aggression, ignoring their cries of fear and pain.

Taken from Star Wars: The Force Unleashed: Novelization

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Boondara burst its power cell core with his lightsaber yeah, probably generating an even deadlier explosion than the one Vaylin tanked given it was generated only by a ruptured container of pressurised coolant. And it vaporised Boondara in a microsecond. 👆

And no, Maul did not suffer extensive injuries, he was only stunned, yet retained the ability to survive a one-hundred foot fall.

Tanking a explosion that is capable of atomising living beings is not a significant development? Funny. I seem to remember you saying the exact opposite. Clearly Maul is capable of no-selling Palpatine's lightning. 😂

A shrill whine rose like a scream: the sound of pressurized coolant spewing from a punctured hyperdrive. Senya had just long enough to register what had happened before the damaged hyperdrive exploded.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne: A Mother's Hope

---

That blast vaporized Anoon Bondara due to his proximity to it where its kinetic energy would have been greatest. However, Darth Maul anticipated it in advance and swiftly leapt to safety:

Maul turned and leapt from the plat-form, reaching for the dark side, enfolding himself in it even as the power cell exploded.

Taken from Shadow Hunter

---

Both forms of explosion were absolutely potent but common sense dictates that a hyperdrive explosion would be relatively much more powerful.

Difference between Darth Maul and Vaylin? Darth Maul swiftly leapt to safety in order to save himself while Vaylin took one like a champ. Their is no comparison between the two. Nice try tho.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cool, same difference i.e. infinitely greater in destructive magnitude than ripping something into chunks, and to the point at which the integrity of the ship becomes irrelevant.

First of all, this comparison is absolutely silly and ill-advised.

On one end, we have a gigantic structure composed entirely of huge plates of durasteel.*

On the other end, we have a machine housing a billion components inside its exterior.

*One can only tear this kind of structure apart.

**One can reduce a machine into a billion parts or such because its composition is like that. Vitiate reduced T3-M4 droid into a billion pieces as well, to give you an idea.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The ship was not remotely close to obliteration, so yes, yes he could. Try to understand that if you are capable of generating sufficient force to reduce an object to dust, whether or not it has cracks in it ceases to become of any relevance.

With his mind and all the power of the Force, Starkiller embraced what remained of the frigate beneath him-and blew it into a billion pieces.

Taken from The Force Unleashed II: Novelization

Take a look what a spacecraft has inside:

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/wm/live/624_351/images/live/p0/27/64/p02764kc.jpg

Countless parts in just that segment.

Emphasis mine. Starkiller did not reduce the remainder of the Starship to dust but simply disintegrated it. More importantly, the vessel would have comprised of countless components beneath its exterior, making the act of disintegration not anything extraordinary.

And the Starship was clearly falling apart before that:

With a bone-jarring crack, the spine connecting fore and aft sections of the frigate snapped clean through. Starkiller reached out with the Force, trying desperately to keep the two pieces together, but nothing could be done. They were already moving on slightly different trajectories. Air and debris sprayed from the great wound that separated them, providing entirely unpredictable thrust.

Groaning, juddering, the fore section began to lift again. Starkiller didn't fight it. With so much mass already stripped from it, the damage it would do when it hit was negligible. The rear was the priority. The heavy engines and main reactor continued powering forward on the trajectory it had originally been following. Was that the right trajectory or not? Starkiller anxiously studied its fall, projecting it forward to the best of his senses.

Taken from The Force Unleashed II: Novelization

Starship did not accomplish anything extraordinary in this case. Case closed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
An arbitrary assertion that needs no addressing, lel.

Or in other words you're grasping for shitty excuses. 👆

She ripped off the front plating of a portion of a structure, if your going to nitpick Starkiller's feat at least be honest about your own. 😂

Apart from that instance in which he obliterated a much larger object. 🙁

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yoda >> Starkiller. mmm

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes I'm sure. Still much smaller than a 40-50 story section of a frigate that's about 20 stories in width and 13 stories high, by Ant's own estimations, and she only destroyed a fraction of it.

But here's a recreated image for you:

Not remotely as sizeable, even if she had TK'ed the entire building. 😱

Nonetheless, absolutely ill-advised comparison.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That power core that was smaller than the aforementioned frigate and she didn't blow into a billion pieces? OK.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sure he does. Perhaps make a thread and we can poll the general opinion.

In-fact, I would contend that the original Galen Marek was relatively stronger.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No Yoda is more powerful for doing a much better job of it and surviving the encounter.

Save the witty rejoiners for those with more than half a wit darling.

1. Galen Marek was up against a relatively stronger incarnation of Palpatine.
2. Marek - while enduring the Force lightning - was able to close the gap between him and his opponent, subjecting the opponent to his own power.
3. Amidst the struggle, Marek saw his allies in danger and decided to save them rather than contend with Palpatine.

Sorry, my friend. I am not convinced.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm glad to here that. But sadly, you haven't proven Vaylin can manage it comfortably at all.

And I'm guessing you missed my response on the preivous page, but that's OK. There's nothing for you to add but concessions anyway. 🙂

Concession should actually come from you for drawing silly comparisons and misinterpreting various developments.

vader>>starkiller>>vaylin

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
vaylin>>vader>>starkiller

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
*snip*

Juno coughed and wished she could wipe her eyes clear of ash. Her ship had blown itself practically to atoms; she had seen it happen, right in front of her.

Has Yoda disintegrated a frigate? mmm

Even that segment was far from being fully intact before Starkiller disintegrated it from within.

Nonetheless, absolutely ill-advised comparison.

See above.

He does. 😉

In-fact, I would contend that the original Galen Marek was relatively stronger.

Really?

1. Galen Marek was up against a relatively stronger incarnation of Palpatine.
2. Marek - while enduring the Force lightning - was able to close the gap between him and his opponent, subjecting the opponent to his own power.
3. Amidst the struggle, Marek saw his allies in danger and decided to save them rather than contend with Palpatine.

Sorry, my friend. I am not convinced.

Vaylin is actually overkill for that showing. 👆

Concession should actually come from you for drawing silly comparisons and misinterpreting various developments.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I refer to my original points. 😆

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Has Yoda been ragdolled by Vader? 😱

Originally posted by Beniboybling
All those parts where relatively intact. Actually. 🙂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I did, almost burst out laughing. 🙂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Than Vaylin? I agree.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I couldn't give a flying f*ck. 🙂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not seeing a case here darling, shall I take it that you don't have one?