Originally posted by quanchi112
I have always maintained this you are the one not grasping what I've stated from the beginning.
Kek, no you haven't. You've given excuse after excuse and constantly fail to acknowledge Kenobi's clear superiority.
He amassed enough power to become his rival. That's immensely impressive considering the power Sidious had amassed at that point. Also your take on rival is arguable but it doesn't undermine my point. Maul was a real challenge for Sidious to address. Maul is amazing.
So you believe his power was enough to actually take on the Pub and the Confederacy and even give them a relatively good fight? 😂
The context in which Palpatine says 'rival' isn't clear-cut, but there definitely are a couple of things we can dismiss quickly:
1. He very evidently did not mean 'rival' in terms of combative prowess, so you saying 'my take on rival is arguable' is complete bullshit. It's not arguable.
2. We know for a fact he was no match for Sidious' in terms of armies, followers, influence, contacts or even to the RoT.
And sure, Sidious realized Maul was beginning to amass considerable support in a short period of time, so he obviously thought he'd need to remove him before he aquired even more resources. However, your fanboyism drives you to overestimate the word 'rival'.
Maul had less help or resources out of any them. That's what makes him amazing that he even survived the Kenobi incident of PM. Vader failed despite the backing of a galactic empire and being a benefactor of Sheev's machinations. He wasn't bright enough to locate Kenobi on his own he also came to him. Maul made him come out of hiding. Yoda let the Jedi council down despite its hold and numbers because he was a huge failure. He even had a shot against Palp and failed against a peer despite knowing how this was his only chance to save the galaxy from a tyrant. Sidious had everything under control and put himself at risk to turn a Jedi to his dark side when it only put him at risk. Sad.
Let's look at facts:
1. Maul was kidnapped and trained as the ultimate tool for Sidious, a purpose in which he was successful until a Jedi Padawan cut him in half and ruined his life.
2. He spent [wasted] years traumatized and completely deranged in a desolate planet, eating what he could find and barely surviving. If it weren't for his brother and Talzin, btw, he would've probably remained there forever. So, starting from this point, Maul had definitely a shitload of help, without which he would've never been able to accomplish what he accomplished afterwards. 👆
3. After Savage took him to Talzin and she 'revived' him, he confronts Kenobi along with his brother and he managed to let Kenobi escape again, with the help of a lesser Force user.
4. When Maul actually faced off against Kenobi for the second time, he ended up being spaced by him and almost dying again, along with his brother.
5. When he finally was beginning to become someone relevant again, in comes Sidious, who crushes his dreams into oblivion and kills the only person in the galaxy he actually cared about.
6. He manages to escape Sidious' grasp only to become a shell of what he once was, become broken and lost and finally die in the hands of his eternal rival in just three moves.
7. A dog managed to get the better of him.
8. A blinded, lesser Force user managed to get the better of him.
Now, you criticize Vader for failing in spite of being 'backed up by Sidious'. Are you conveniently forgetting Maul also had the backing of Sidious for decades and also failed...? Of course you are.
Vader wasn't petty and selfish at the point of his death.
We were never debating this, stupid. 😂
The fact that he wasn't petty and selfish at the point of his death [when he actually couldn't be considered a Sith], is irrelevant. His whole life as a Sith was spent being petty and selfish. Like most Sith. Which was exactly my point.
We are talking about death scenes and what led to it.
Uh, when did I ever mention a death scene and what led to it? 😕
Vader was selfless and sacrificed himself to save his son. Maul died embracing the Sith philosophy while Vader embraced the Jedi manner before death. You're a clown.
Maul died being petty and selfish so that's why it's relevant while Vader died being selfless. You can't even make sense despite me holding your filthy third world hand. Points of death. Maul died a Sith Vader died as a Jedi and Anakin. For ****s sake.
This is sooo far off my original point, it's honestly hard to fathom your level of stupidity at this point. Unless you're deviating from my original point on purpose because you've no argument against it, which is also quite enjoyable for me. Win-win.
He is frailer and older.
Oh my ****ing God. It's just impossible for you to move on, isn't it? 'Frailer and older' does not equate to 'not being in a good shape' to you? ****ing make up your mind already.
Just because Yoda can flip when he uses the force doesn't make him not a frail, old bastard who needs a cane outside the force.
Comparing Maul to Yoda in terms of physical capabilites is frankly retarded. Yoda does indeed need a cane. He's ****ing 900 years old. Yet he fights like a demon. He's equal to Sidious. So even if Maul is 'frail', as you put it, how truly relevant is it whe someone like Yoda can fight on par with Sidious? Of course, Yoda >> Maul in terms of everything, but the point is he uses the Force very well to compensate his fragile physical state, and as seen in his fight scenes in S2, Maul does too. Either way, he's no where near as frail as Yoda, so dull comparison.
Oh, I almost forgot. You still haven't provided any evidence that shows Maul was way more dependent on his physicality than Obi-Wan. Still waiting.
Filoni's opinion over scenes from canon he has worked on is relevant but his opinion on hypothetical matchups isn't.
Do you realize that by being the director and executive producer of Rebels he has actually worked on it, or has your stupidity crossed the line this time? What ****ing hypothetical matchup are you even referring to??
He worked on this and knows more than you do
This exact same logic can be used against you whenever you decide to completely ignore Filoni's take on any SW matter he worked on. Being hypocritical is clearly one of your favorite hobbies.
so of course I'm going to cite the actor to correct your ignorance, you don't comprehend anything and I'll destroy your ignorance, third worlder.
It's still his opinion and not a factual statement. 🙂 So either use an actual viable source or move on. Or do you fail to comprehend that it being non-Canon makes it irrelevant in a debate?
A third worlder who's kicked your ass countless times in debates, is smarter than you, more objective, less salty and idiotic and better looking. 🙂 🙂
Watch his phantom menace fight and see his physical skills and compare his posture and movement outside of the force in rebels. Not hard to grasp. Common sense 101.
The evidence I'm interested in is the one that unquestionably demonstrates that the gap in combative prowess between TPM/TCW Maul and Rebels Maul is as significant as you claim.
I am saying his skills are up to the task for any elite but the reason he died against Kenobi was he was familiar with the attack he used decades before and countered.
Again, familiarity can only take you so far, not as far as taking down your opponent in three moves because you're familiar with him, lmao.
Again, whilst broken and lost he was able to put up great fights in S2.
And you didn't answer my question. What else you got? Because both of those arguments have been refuted and you just keep on recycling them.
You have refuted nothing just restated your opinions.
Sure, kiddo. Whatever you say.
I've restarted my case a hundred times for your tiny brain to comprehend but to no avail.
No, you've phrased your arguments in different ways every single time I refute them, KEK.
Filoni explained it as the reason. Facts don't change my trollish friend.
Filoni also stated other stuff that clearly indicate Kenobi >> Maul, not just because he was 'broken and lost'. Do you conveniently choose to ignore them, or..?
Vader was angry and empowered by emotions which is what the Sith rely on. Are you a moron ? Rhetorical.
Maul was also 'empowered' by emotions when he got owned by Kenobi, then. Same logic. Are you so stupid?
Maul defeated clone wars Kenobi and made him flee as well. Maul killed Qui as well but your Maul hate is pretty apparent at this point.
Maul made Kenobi flee a scenario in which he was nowhere near a good physical state due to the beating Maul and Savage gave him before, so not a clean 1v1 situation you can rely on, lol.
The second time they met Kenobi fought both brothers simultaneously and was able to give them a hell of a fight. So, no.
What does Jinn have to do with anything?
My Maul hate? The most apparent characteristic of anyone on this forum is your incredible Maul fanboyism. 😂