https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/29968/986395-newavengers21rh9.jpg
Top-tier skeleton durability 👆
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
True, Spidey may likely KO himself, you're right.
Assuming you're going off either scan of what I originally posted a moment ago, I don't really understand how you think that point is being illustrated, unless you're referring to the alluded-to posted scene(s) previous to the Ben Grimm one? I suppose that'd be a possible conclusion to come to, though it suggests Wolverine can have the wind taken out of his sails by collisions with beings who are far less durable than adamantium in an even more extreme way ...
Here, I'll show what preceded and followed. Might be interesting to see the responses I get:
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Assuming you're going off either scan of what I originally posted a moment ago, I don't really understand how you think that point is being illustrated, unless you're referring to the alluded-to posted scene(s) previous to the Ben Grimm one? I suppose that'd be a possible conclusion to come to, though it suggests Wolverine can have the wind taken out of his sails by collisions with beings who are far less durable than adamantium in an even more extreme way ...Here, I'll show what preceded and followed. Might be interesting to see the responses I get:
I was alluding to the scans you're posting being low showings, as Wolverine has (on many a time) weathered punches like the ones you're posting.
Similar to Spidey being KOed by an old man like the Vulture, for example. Or Aunt May with a vase. Or Taskmaster with a cane. Or a random fat guy with a cinder block. Or a random goon with an iron bar.
All beings far less durable than adamantium in an even more extreme way.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Might be interesting to see the responses I get:
Might be interesting to see you start reading the scans you post.
Rogue fastball special'd Logan into the Thing before the KO punch. Those two impacts are already magnitudes higher than what Parker's headbutt can produce.
Also, keep in mind that's Logan before his major HF upgrades --- and it's his worst durability performance against the Thing, on average he doesn't have a problem with his strikes.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You can even see it in the initial scan. Reed tells Ben how lucky he was that Wolverine was still dazed from the initial impact.
😬
That "initial impact" was Wolverine crashing fists first into Ben.
He was essentially DOUBLE protected (by outstretched arms and his adamantium skull) and still was shaken more than Ben at the end of this affair.
When a Class 100 character throws you into another Class 100 brick, it doesn't matter if it's fists first, feet first or fucking head first, every organ is going to get liquefied, if you want to get technical.
Having a bluedickrider in his corner won't get Spidey even 1/10 win here, sorry.
Wolverine took more hits from WWH than Herc before going down... and, as posted on the first page, he was completely fine after a headbutt duel with a fucking Minotaur, who packed enough striking power to one-shot Hercules:
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWRogue fastball special'd Logan into the Thing before the KO punch.
Also, keep in mind that's Logan before his major HF upgrades --- and it's his worst durability performance against the Thing, on average he doesn't have a problem with his strikes.
That's why I also included the "Superior" Spider-Man showing, which is post healing factor upgrades and is definitely NOT an order of magnitude greater than what Spider-Man himself can reproduce:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Powerful finger flick? Spidey SPECIFICALLY attributed it to the adamantium. Not his strength.WWH took seven punches to give Wolvy brain damage to the extent it counted as a 'win'. As you said, Spidey is no WWH. How much weaker would you say Spidey is to WWH? 50%? So WWH is only twice as strong as Spidey? Then he would still need 14 headbutts to give Wolvy brain damage. 10%? So WWH is equal to 10 Spideys? Then he would need 70 headbutts.
All the while, his own head is hurting, and he doesn't have the benefit of WWH's HF keeping himself fresh.
IOW, the WWH showing is completely unrelated to this thread.
The showing:
https://lowbrowcomics.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/world_war_hulk_-_x-men_002_018.jpg
https://lowbrowcomics.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/world_war_hulk_-_x-men_002_019.jpgSo WWH needs seven punches, whilst trying to end things as quickly as possible, to give him brain damage.
And this somehow equate to Spidey being able to, BEFORE he KOs himself? OK.
That doesn't mean I think Spidey wins here because I definately see him KOing himself if he headbuts Wolverine's adamantium skull with all he's got, I just wanted to put that train of thought out there because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.
Originally posted by darthgooberYou cannot read the entire WWH arc, and then compare that to compound damage by Spiderman, just because it worked for Hulk.
I understand what you're saying and agree to a large extent, but there is one thing I feel like needs to be considered when debating Wolverine. Even before WWH Logan had noted that punches from the Hulk practically liquify his organs. Now since Marvel's not the type of place to frequently showcase it's characters being outright dismembered via punches, it's pretty safe to assume that organ liquification is for all intents and purposes the cap on the amount of damage they're willing to deal out most of the time. Since that's the case, I don't really see Wolverine consistantly withstanding punches from high level bricks as being proof that he can't be KO'd by people like Spidey without some unbelievable number of punches because we all know that an all out punch from someone like Spidey SHOULD be capable of effectively liquifying an organ as well. That being the case, I honestly don't see a punch from WWH being that much more damaging than a punch from Spidey(if he's really putting everything he has into the punch) when they're both punching on a character who's healing the damage rather than outright resisting it via physical durability the way Namor or Hercules would.That doesn't mean I think Spidey wins here because I definately see him KOing himself if he headbuts Wolverine's adamantium skull with all he's got, I just wanted to put that train of thought out there because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I was alluding to the scans you're posting being low showings, as Wolverine has (on many a time) weathered punches like the ones you're posting.Similar to Spidey being KOed by an old man like the Vulture, for example ... [a being] far less durable than adamantium ...
It's worth pointing out that comic book characters change over time, sometimes to such an extent that they are effectively different characters.
Thor is a relatively easy example. In the 1960s, for instance, he had reason to be concerned over policemen with revolvers shooting at him:
Fast forward about 30 years and even gunfire from criminals with sub machine guns are scarcely more than an annoyance to him:
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
😬That "initial impact" was Wolverine crashing fists first into Ben.
He was essentially DOUBLE protected (by outstretched arms and his adamantium skull) and still was shaken more than Ben at the end of this affair.
Logic is fine and dandy - except Reed specifically says that indeed, the impact left him still dazed, and that Ben was lucky.
Similar, perhaps, to how passengers in airplane accidents - despite throwing their arms up to protect themselves, or despite being in a construction made of steel, can still be shaken.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
That's why I also included the "Superior" Spider-Man showing, which is post healing factor upgrades and is definitely NOT an order of magnitude greater than what Spider-Man himself can reproduce:
And why I included my scans - which you did not see, perhaps? I made sure to use a reliable image host, without the trials and tribulations inherent with ones like turboimagehost, so perhaps you just glossed over them?
In any case, I reproduce it, here, for your (and others'😉 edification. Your ignorance of the scans can be telling, however, both to me and to others.
1. Vulture, an old man who, at the time, had no real strength, KOs Spiderman with a kick to the head:
https://s22.postimg.org/qucmxcwpd/RCO006.jpg
2. Random goons with an iron bar and their feet, KO Spiderman with three shots:
https://s23.postimg.org/qnwlbv4bv/image.jpg
3. Aunt May, NOT in her Golden Oldie persona, KOs Spiderman with a vase on his head:
https://s30.postimg.org/6j39g3ggh/awkwardauntmay5b.jpg
4. Taskmaster, who explicitly does NOT have super strength, KOs Spidey with a cane ricocheted off multiple surfaces (a la Daredevil):
http://s24.postimg.org/sdsvkvp8l/103_12b.jpg
5. A random fat guy throws a cinder block, and definitely staggers Spiderman to the point that he is literally seeing stars in the comic, thanks to the artist:
https://s22.postimg.org/3ug39buc1/amazingspiderman638-normalguythrowscinderblock.jpg
Interestingly, that guy subsequently falls on Spiderman, and KOs him. Said guy then recovers quicker than Spiderman, and walks off, leaving him for dead - THE NEXT MORNING:
https://s22.postimg.org/q7ntw4v9t/4227224-9956865789-amazi.jpg
https://s22.postimg.org/mcp17b1ht/Wq_Tq_BWx.jpg
I can take your point that they are different characters, due to time. Hence my inclusion of said fat guy, where the said event occurred in 2010.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
That's why I also included the "Superior" Spider-Man showing, which is post healing factor upgrades and is definitely NOT an order of magnitude greater than what Spider-Man himself can reproduce:
And I countered it with the Maestro showing that happened around the same time, blind man:
FYI, Yost's Wolverine could be flash KO'd by a bullet --- so it's not a valid showing. You want to use that version of Wolverine, then it's ok for me to use Parker who got KO'd by Punisher's kick to the face.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I countered it with the Maestro showing that happened around the same time, blind man:FYI, Yost's Wolverine could be flash KO'd by a bullet --- so it's not a valid showing. You want to use that version of Wolverine, then it's ok for me to use Parker who got KO'd by Punisher's kick to the face.
😕
(Uh-oh. When did that guy show Maestro before now? I really DID miss him posting that, if he did. I don't see how that's a counter, though, so I'll go on posting to D.S. till Stilt decides to post that bullet showing he's talking about.
He's probably just making that up, anyway ...)
