Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
If you're impressed by the elevaor scene, then you should shut the **** up.You've been here for years, stop lying those are the first scans you saw.
Being here for years doesn't mean I followed Wolverine all that time.
Not everyone is a fan of his to the degree you apparently are.
Spider-Man comics aren't like Thor comics, D.
You generally don't have characters crushing down tanks into hammers; objects are given some aspects of realism. Most people don't realize, for instance, that manhole covers and the like tend to be solid metal and can easily
exceed a hundred pounds or more in weight. They're actually quite cumbersome for ordinary people to move without special equipment.
Spider-Man's writers, at least in this particular instance, seem to recognize that. Note Vulture's comment:
Originally posted by darthgooberI understand that, but then you would have to explain the numerous times Wolverine has survived being punched far more than seven times, and survived easily at that, by superhumans far exceeding Spiderman.
Im in no way suggesting Spidey wins this(I very specifically said that I think Spidey would KO himself headbutting Wolverine), nor am I saying that Spidey's damage output is actually equal to WWH. My point is that in regards to tissue/organ damage, Wolverine doesn't actually resist the damage he simply heals it and total organ destruction is total organ destruction whether it comes from 20 tons of force or 1,000,000,000 tons of force. Against someone like Namor who has actual enhanced durability in his muscles and soft tissues, I absolutely think that Spidey would need to deliver a lot more punches than Hulk to achieve a KO, but against someone like Wolverine I don't think he would because if he's not holding back Spidey should be able to cause total organ destruction with a single punch as well.By the same token, if you drop a person out of a plane at 50,000 feat and they heal the damage it doesn't mean that healing the damage from dropping them out 20,000 feat will be any "easier" to heal because in both cases their body is receiving the same amount of damage... their body is totally f*cked.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Spider-Man comics aren't like Thor comics, D.You generally don't have characters crushing down tanks into hammers; objects are given some aspects of realism. Most people don't realize, for instance, that manhole covers and the like tend to be solid metal and can easily
exceed a hundred pounds or more in weight. They're actually quite cumbersome for ordinary people to move without special equipment.Spider-Man's writers, at least in this particular instance, seem to recognize that. Note Vulture's comment:
Opening a pressurized airplane door requires using 3-4 tons of force. That's a little heavier than "a hundred pounds or more in weight."
Any top martial artist can completely separate someones head from their shoulders with a kick? Fine, show me any not explicitly superhuman martial artist doing so. One.
And Beast only broke free after Maverick tampered with his leg restraints. Wolverine's escape was much more impressive.
Originally posted by Ize19
Opening a pressurized airplane door requires using 3-4 tons of force. That's a little heavier than "a hundred pounds or more in weight."Any top martial artist can completely separate someones head from their shoulders with a kick? Fine, show me any not explicitly superhuman martial artist doing so. One.
1. Karate Kid. He's not explicitly superhuman. And he would do that quite easily.
2. I looked up the airplane door thing.
One, that looks like the kind of plane people jump out of. Are you sure it even IS pressurized, or are you assuming? Where is that scan from?
3-4 tons would be 6,000 to 8,000 pounds. National Geographic gives an estimate of 1,000 pounds.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/05/130528-airplane-door-open-midflight-pilot-eject/
Mind you, that's still very impressive, but that would still make your elevator showing the proper leader.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
1. Karate Kid. He's not explicitly superhuman. And he would do that quite easily.2. I looked up the airplane door thing.
One, that looks like the kind of plane people jump out of. Are you sure it even IS pressurized, or are you assuming? Where is that scan from?3-4 tons would be 6,000 to 8,000 pounds. National Geographic gives an estimate of 1,000 pounds.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/05/130528-airplane-door-open-midflight-pilot-eject/Mind you, that's still very impressive, but that would still make your elevator showing the proper leader.
1. Lol, Karate Kid? You mean the character who accomplishes explicitly superhuman feats strictly due to his martial arts mastery, and therefore is considered leagues above every other martial artist? Considering you first said "virtually any Marvel martial artist could do the same," this is clearly a bs copout.
And since I said show me, and your only example was someone who hadn't performed the feat, but had performed such clearly superhuman feats that no one would doubt that he could, clearly he is not a valid example.
2. It was a helicarrier, and the part of the helicarrier that carried normal passengers without oxygen masks. That would mean it would have to be pressurized, and since Wolverine took it upon himself to open the door, without getting any clearance, it's clear that it wasn't depressurized for them. Plus, we see him putting his foot against the side of the helicarrier to increase his force, which wouldn't be necessary if it wasn't pressurized. The scan is from Wolverine: Debt of Death.
That quote was clearly a rough calculation, and I have two articles by two different pilots, who put it at 3-4 tons on average:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2016/10/27/is_it_possible_to_open_an_airplane_door_mid_flight.html
And 1,100 pounds per sq ft, which, looking at the scan, would make it about a five ton feat:
http://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/exits/
Anyway, since we're now arguing about the degree to which Wolverine is stronger than Vulture (lol) maybe that can be considered proven, and more fruitful lines of debate considered.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I take the point where he unclenches his fists, to be where he was useless.. After the third punch from WWH, he was still slashing away at Hulk. Hell, after the 5th, he was still slashing away. So not useless, and still fighting back.So it took more than FIVE punches from a pissed off WWH. ONE punch didn't do it. TWO didn't. THREE didn't.
So yeah, we do know at which point he was useless. By the 6th, he was senseless, going limp.
So unless you can prove to me that Spidey can output more damage than 5 punches from a WWH who is deliberately trying to beat Wolvy senseless, you don't have much of an argument.
Meanwhile, don't forget, Hulk's fists won't be suffering brain damage. Equal and opposite reactions, and all that. If Spidey is causing enough damage to rattle Wolvy's brain, he will be suffering it himself, too.
Except his skull is less durable than adamantium, and his HF is slower than Wolvy's.
i will have to disagree. be with me on this one. after the first punch i will give him that, he kept slashing. however when he got punch again, look at all the other punches. after the second punch it seems like he is not slashing anymore but his claws are stuck. his left arm claws are stuck in hulks right arm, whole his right arm claws slashed his arm and it suums like the third claw is simply stuck. the way i see it wolverine is not slashing anymore but his claws are stuck inside hulk arms. he was able to execute those slashed only after the first punch. therefor, for all that we know wolverine can take 1 WWH punch and 2 WWH punches are taking him out. now, regardless of thios point, again, i will repeat that its not about the strength difference as long as you have the power to tilt the brain inside the skull. remember, in order to break a stick spiderman doesnt have to be WWH level. both of them can break the stick. so as far as i see it, even if we take all the punches as counted, it only tells us that this is the amount of times his brain can be tilted inside of his skull until he is done. therefor, my argument still stands that spiderman can do the same. and yes i believe spiderman will be able to execute 2 strikes before he is out by himself.
P.s sorry it takes me days to replay i am only fully resting on weekends 🙁
Originally posted by emu
I remember Roughhouse did nothing but work up a sweat trying to punch the healing factor out of Logan, and that was without his adamantium. That to me means when it comes to blunt force trauma concerning Wolverine, there's slaps, then there's WWfukinH.
And just a few pages back there's a scan showing Spidermans durabilty isn't worth his strength, especially when he breaks his hand punching Hammerhead. While you're arguing Parkers durability, you might of missed that.
what does roughouse has to do with anything? whats his power level? was he hitting wolverine over and over again non stop? and by the way when wolverine lost his adamantium his healing factor only increased because his healing factor didnt have to deal with protecting him from adamantium poisioning.
bringing low showings and lowballing a character is not an argument. you can do better than that...
Originally posted by Dareangel
i will have to disagree. be with me on this one. after the first punch i will give him that, he kept slashing. however when he got punch again, look at all the other punches. after the second punch it seems like he is not slashing anymore but his claws are stuck. his left arm claws are stuck in hulks right arm, whole his right arm claws slashed his arm and it suums like the third claw is simply stuck. the way i see it wolverine is not slashing anymore but his claws are stuck inside hulk arms. he was able to execute those slashed only after the first punch. therefor, for all that we know wolverine can take 1 WWH punch and 2 WWH punches are taking him out. now, regardless of thios point, again, i will repeat that its not about the strength difference as long as you have the power to tilt the brain inside the skull. remember, in order to break a stick spiderman doesnt have to be WWH level. both of them can break the stick. so as far as i see it, even if we take all the punches as counted, it only tells us that this is the amount of times his brain can be tilted inside of his skull until he is done. therefor, my argument still stands that spiderman can do the same. and yes i believe spiderman will be able to execute 2 strikes before he is out by himself.P.s sorry it takes me days to replay i am only fully resting on weekends 🙁
That's a horrible interpretation of the scene. You can clearly see motion lines indicating an actual slash during the second and third punches, both of his sets of claws come free during the fourth punch, then his shifted position show that he threw a final (on panel) slash during the fifth punch. The six and seventh punches they focus on Wolverine's face more, so he was probably incapable of fighting back by the sixth punch, though going by his face actual knockout wasn't achieved until the seventh.
Lol, Wolverine being incapacitated by two Spider-Man headbutts is laughable. Don't forget, not only is Spider-Man taking damage from Wolverine's adamantium skull, but that skull is absorbing a lot of the damage. Taking into account the fact that Wolverine's outlasted a non-stop assault on his head from Spider-Man twice before, it's much more likely that Spider-Man cracks his head open than he manages to replicate WWH's feat here.
Considering the topic, if Roughhouse wasn't hitting wolverine over an extended amount of time specifically to burn out Wolverines HF I wouldn't of brought it up :/
Roughhouse is linked to Asgard, and at the least hinted to be a troll.
I'd throw scans at you, but my collections gone, and I'm on my phone....kill me.
And it doesn't matter if Logans HF was better back then, since Logan has adamantium for this it comes down to Spidermans durability than anything else.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
As can a guy with a metal skull?
Exactly. Hence my point, which is that being thrown into Thing (who is more durable than Spidey) by Rogue (who is stronger than Spidey) was still affecting him.
Originally posted by BUSTER1
I'm sorry, but that scan can't be used as evidence. The writer of the story it is from, Amazing Spiderman #162, is Len "my Spiderman is crap at fighting" Wein.
When Spiderman is written properly, his spider sense would warn him that the "sniper victim" in the alley, is a gun toting thug, and he would web him up before he can move.
When the 2nd thug goes to whack him, his spider sense + super reflexes would enable him to easily avoid getting hit, and he could then get in a ko punch before the bloke could take another swipe. Even if thug 2 connected, it shouldn't bother a man who has swapped punches with other super humans who are his strength level, 10ton, and above. Full blooded 10tonner punch>>>>>>>>>2 bit thug with iron bar.Now that i have got that of my chest, I say that Wolverine wins this 10/10.
Fair enough. It still happened, and the reason for me using it, is the same as bluewater using his scans. HIS writer believed that Spiderman could do that to Wolverine; MY writer believes a random human wielding an iron bar could do that to Spiderman.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
For purposes of this discussion, "real strength" is effectively Wolverine's level of strength, since he's the actual opponent Spidey's supposed to be going against. I'd be impressed if you could prove Vulture less strong
Except it is also 'Spiderman's durability', as HE is the actual opponent Wolverine is going against.
But OK.
Here is Wolverine swinging Dragonman AND Black Panther around by said Dragonman's tail:
http://i.imgur.com/9ua8Aox.jpg
Note, too, it was against the propulsive force generated by his wings. Dragonman, for those of you who don't know, is around 3 tons in weight. Panther weighs some more, on top of that. But yes, several hundred pounds (as with Daredevil and the headstone) sounds impressive!
Vulture matches Daredevil in strength? Cute. Wolverine matches Warpath in strength:
http://i.imgur.com/NLOE3nl.png
But like I said:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In any case, I reproduce it, here, for your (and others'😉 edification. Your ignorance of the scans can be telling, however, both to me and to others.
You only seemed to focus on Toomes. No mention of dear old Aunt May? Random fat guy with his cinder block? Who KO'd Spidey just by falling on him?
Originally posted by Dareangel
i will have to disagree. be with me on this one. after the first punch i will give him that, he kept slashing. however when he got punch again, look at all the other punches. after the second punch it seems like he is not slashing anymore but his claws are stuck. his left arm claws are stuck in hulks right arm, whole his right arm claws slashed his arm and it suums like the third claw is simply stuck. the way i see it wolverine is not slashing anymore but his claws are stuck inside hulk arms. he was able to execute those slashed only after the first punch. therefor, for all that we know wolverine can take 1 WWH punch and 2 WWH punches are taking him out. now, regardless of thios point, again, i will repeat that its not about the strength difference as long as you have the power to tilt the brain inside the skull. remember, in order to break a stick spiderman doesnt have to be WWH level. both of them can break the stick. so as far as i see it, even if we take all the punches as counted, it only tells us that this is the amount of times his brain can be tilted inside of his skull until he is done. therefor, my argument still stands that spiderman can do the same. and yes i believe spiderman will be able to execute 2 strikes before he is out by himself.P.s sorry it takes me days to replay i am only fully resting on weekends 🙁
Look at his right arm. Also, Ize has already pointed out what I was going to type.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fair enough. It still happened, and the reason for me using it, is the same as bluewater using his scans. HIS writer believed that Spiderman could do that to Wolverine; MY writer believes a random human wielding an iron bar could do that to Spiderman ...
Your lawyers against my lawyers, eh?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Your lawyers against my lawyers, eh?
It's a showing that happened in a canon comic.
Is that a low showing that should be ignored, due to Spiderman's plethora of other showings? Sure.
Is that a low showing that should be ignored, due to Wolverine's plethora of other showings? Sure.
