Luke Hobbs vs Jessica Jones

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
This did actually ruin what could have been a great moment in the film.

Spoiler:
After all the tension build up between him and that big ginger henchman guy, I expected them to have a proper showdown in the snow. But Dom just manhandles him, slams him down, and then snaps his neck with a single hard blow to the face.

Yeah, that was just anticlimactic. Dom gets away with too much stuff that he shouldn't be. At least Hobbs is a trained special task force agent.

It's like in FF7 when Dom and Shaw get into a head-on collision and Dom makes a big deal about how Shaw had a loaded hood or something, and yet despite the loaded hood Dom seems just as fine.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah, that was just anticlimactic. Dom gets away with too much stuff that he shouldn't be. At least Hobbs is a trained special task force agent.

It's like in FF7 when Dom and Shaw get into a head-on collision and Dom makes a big deal about how Shaw had a loaded hood or something, and yet despite the loaded hood Dom seems just as fine.

Yeah, it's become kind of a running joke on some boards. "Family-lusted" Dom is invincible.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I don't recall Jessica ripping someone's head off, but she did casually snap Kilgrave's neck, and killed a woman with a straight punch to the chest. And she has a bunch of other good strength feats as well, like casually snapping padlocks, tearing off car doors, lifting the back of a car without showing much strain etc.

FF8 stepped it up to the next level though. Both Hobbs and Shaw were visibly faster and more agile than in the previous film, and looked a lot more skilled (which is likely down to an upgrade in fight choreography). And they both fought groups of other enemies, including people in full riot gear (while they themselves were unarmed), just to show how formidable they were. I think Hobbs maybe got tagged once or twice in H2H during the entire movie (and it had zero effect other than making Hobbs look irritated), and I can't recall a single instance of someone landing a hit on Shaw. And Hobbs was just full-blown superhuman in terms of strength feats. He does things like

Spoiler:
casually snap the chains on prison restraints to break free, pull a concrete prison bench out of its wall mounting and then does reps with it, punched a dent larger than his fist into a thick armoured door, KO'd a guy who was wearing a riot helmet with a bare-headed headbutt, and was easily sending guys flying all over the place. At one point he sent 3 guys in full body armour, with riot shields, sailing back probably about 10 feet, all at once. He also took repeated very close range hits from a shotgun firing rubber bullets (as he was walking towards the guy), and all it did was annoy him.

I'm personally leaning towards Hobbs here, as there isn't really much of a stat difference at this point IMO, and Hobbs is a WAY better fighter.

Goodnight: after reading the spoiler territory feats, I conclude Hobbs beats the tar out of her.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's like in FF7 when Dom and Shaw get into a head-on collision and Dom makes a big deal about how Shaw had a loaded hood or something, and yet despite the loaded hood Dom seems just as fine.

Originally posted by KingD19
after falling 4 stories and having another +100lbs in his partner fall on him. Which I'm pretty sure is long enough to approach the peak of terminal velocity,

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

Spoiler:
After all the tension build up between him and that big ginger henchman guy, I expected them to have a proper showdown in the snow. But Dom just manhandles him, slams him down, and then snaps his neck with a single hard blow to the face.

T

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
I watched FF8 yesterday. You call that guy big. I disagree. You know what I thought when I first saw him try to attack Dom? ""Does this skinny idiot really think he can take him?"" I mean he barely looked as wide as Letty with that jacket on.

Agree to disagree. He's not Rock size, but he is the same height as Diesel, and he's definitely bigger than Michelle Rodriguez who, funnily enough, got cast to play a guy during part of another movie she recently was in. Also, beyond that, you would think that Cipher's right hand guy would be more capable than that.

The only thing I can agree with is the last. Then again if it had been a serious fight imo it would have affected the pacing of the climax. Also after seeing I have something to say about Hobb's feats. While still impressive, there are few points I would like to add to your description:
* IIRC The concrete bench was not fully attached to the wall, just two finger sized points, and the bench itself wasn't that long.
* And the dent in the door. IIRC it was a metal wall. And I seriously doubt it was an armored one, and the dent wasn't deep. In fact I expected one more in line with RS on Cap's original shield, or the dent Dom made on his car when the punch intended for Deckard missed.
* And about sending the guys with the shields flying. I doubt it was 10 ft. More like 4 or 5. And that was pretty unclear too. You never see how Hobbs hit them. You first see the three shivering at Hobbs. Then cut to outside, when one guy comes out flying, followed by the other two. Didn't see the shields.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
The only thing I can agree with is the last. Then again if it had been a serious fight imo it would have affected the pacing of the climax. Also after seeing I have something to say about Hobb's feats. While still impressive, there are few points I would like to add to your description:
* IIRC The concrete bench was not fully attached to the wall, just two finger sized points, and the bench itself wasn't that long.
* And the dent in the door. IIRC it was a metal wall. And I seriously doubt it was an armored one, and the dent wasn't deep. In fact I expected one more in line with RS on Cap's original shield, or the dent Dom made on his car when the punch intended for Deckard missed.
* And about sending the guys with the shields flying. I doubt it was 10 ft. More like 4 or 5. And that was pretty unclear too. You never see how Hobbs hit them. You first see the three shivering at Hobbs. Then cut to outside, when one guy comes out flying, followed by the other two. Didn't see the shields.

Well, you can google the actor. He is the same height as Diesel.

- They were definitely thicker than finger sized, and solid metal (can see the points while he does the reps), and you could see where the wall concrete itself had broken around the holes where they got torn out. Those are prison benches. They are not made so that even large muscular guys could simply rip them out of the walls, as that would provide an inmate with a potential weapon. Especially in what was clearly a maximum security prison.

- It was a door, as you can see that the surrounding walls were see-through, and above it could even see the door mechanism. And it was in a hidden government facility that housed millions of dollars worth of vehicles. They aren't going to skimp on security. At the very least it would likely have been high tensile steel, if not straight up military-grade. And it was thicker than what you would find on the body of a street car, or even Cap's first shield.

- No offense, but you need to learn to judge distances a bit better. The length of hall we see is longer than the Rock is tall, and the three came through simultaneously. One fully airborne and two sailing along the ground. And they were already clearly in motion before they went through the doorway, because you can see nearly a foot into the other room through the open doors, thanks to the camera angle. Even if not quite 10 feet, it was closer to that than 4 or even 5. And they were holding shields and batons when they faced him.

Hell, even ignoring that, other than the punch Jessica killed Luke's wife (and she was just a skinny female civilian) with, none of her feats of tossing people around are even above Hobbs picking up individual prison guards and tossing them about.

Edit: Just to be clear, I definitely don't consider him to be as strong as Cap, or even Jessica for that matter, but he is still, by real life standards, superhumanly strong and durable. And he is in a completely different league to Jessica in terms of fighting skill.

-I wasn't talking about height. More on width of the guy.
- I never said the bench could be torn out by prisoners or what Hobb's did wasn't superhuman. I just meant that it wasn't as big as I expected, like the large ones in a park, nor was it attached completely along the edge like many concrete benches. Didn't see any metal spikes during the reps, my bad
- about the armored guys, I only said it wasn't shown clearly how they got hit and thus I have a problem taking it as you described.

- and another thing I forgot to add. On the rubber bullets thing. IIRC, Hobbs got shot only twice, both times in the shoulder, and the first one was fired from some distance. By your post I expected him walking through a dozen ones to the chest ala Terminator.

Tl;dr- I wasn't saying what Hobbs did wasn't impressive, just that I expected way more from your description. And I wasn't even arguing for jessica.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
- and another thing I forgot to add. On the rubber bullets thing. IIRC, Hobbs got shot only twice, both times in the shoulder, and the first one was fired from some distance. By your post I expected him walking through a dozen ones to the chest ala Terminator.

IIRC, it was 3, and at least 1 of them hit him in the chest (on the right pec). And you know that rubber bullets fired from a shotgun can break bones and actually be fatal in RL at that range right (they're actually supposed to be used at distance of 10-30 yards, for crowd control)? Hell, a shot like that in RL, if it hit a shoulder, would most likely cause a dislocation.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
IIRC, it was 3, and at least 1 of them hit him in the chest (on the right pec). And you know that rubber bullets fired from a shotgun can break bones and actually be fatal in RL at that range right (they're actually supposed to be used at distance of 10-30 yards, for crowd control)? Hell, a shot like that in RL, if it hit a shoulder, would most likely cause a dislocation.

not sure if Jessica can knock away a missile lol

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
IIRC, it was 3, and at least 1 of them hit him in the chest (on the right pec). And you know that rubber bullets fired from a shotgun can break bones and actually be fatal in RL at that range right (they're actually supposed to be used at distance of 10-30 yards, for crowd control)? Hell, a shot like that in RL, if it hit a shoulder, would most likely cause a dislocation.

Yep. He would've been down and out and severely injured.

Then again, IIRC Hobbs snatched the shotgun and shot another guy point blank in the head, so the gun may have been suppressed, or as usual the writers threw Physics into the bin.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Then again, IIRC Hobbs snatched the shotgun and shot another guy point blank in the head, so the gun may have been suppressed, or as usual the writers threw Physics into the bin.

Yeah but the guard was wearing a helmet IIRC.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah but the guard was wearing a helmet IIRC.

Yeah, the guy was wearing a riot helmet with a reinforced visor. Hobbs was wearing a prison jumpsuit. And the guy went down instantly. For all we know, he ended up in the hospital after that. Hobbs didn't really show that much restraint during that scene. As KingD mentioned earlier in the thread, he hit another one of the guards hard enough that his neck bent when he hit the floor, and quite possibly killed the inmate he stabbed in the chest with their own shiv.

it will be a tough fight when it comes to superhuman strength

So after Defenders and JJ S2, does Hobbs still have a chance?

I mean now she has shown the ability to handle skilled opponents, oneshot KO outright superhumans like Black Sky, take hits better, lift elevators and hold back buses, and punch holes through walls and carbhoods and show a lot less restraint towards opponents

She still has trouble with skilled opponents who are also above normal human though. Both Murakami and Black Sky had her in trouble when they were fighting her solo. Daredevil needed to help her against Murakami and, IIRC, the times Jessica tagged Black Sky, they were either fighting Elektra as a group, or it was a surprise, like when she upper-cutted Elektra after the arrival of the other Defenders took them by surprise.

So, I still don't think she'd have it all her own way, but the advantage has definitely shifted to her side at this point.