Councilor Hamann...

Started by maul's woman5 pages

Yes he would if he was near an EMP burst. But he wasn't. Plus being a cyborg covered with human flesh and the eyes to perfection how would the people of Zion even know the difference. They would not if Hamann is a cyborg. There would be no metallic surfaces on his body. Sleeping would not be necessary but no would know that. His excuse is that he only sleeps are few hours per night and he hates sleeping. There are alot of people like that. No red flags there.

there is definitely something to him..why did he have to let morpheous and his gang leave zion without much resistance? and in his conversation with neo, he seemed to be stressing much about a balance between the humans and machines...saying we need them amd can't do without them....

Quite Right!!!! That is exactly what happened. Morpheus, Trinity and Neo have intimate connections with the A.I. through the Oracle. Hamann knew this. Hamann himself must have had meetings with the Oracle or some other aspect of the A.I. Even if he is not a cyborg or some other agent of the A.I. he is connected and he knows of the connection between it and the other three. Especially The One. It could also be that Hamann also knows of the Architect or some aspect of the Architect and that Neo would meet him.

It is entirely possible he has met the Oracle. All else seems very unlikely.

or maybe he is just another form of control... the head military guy didn't want the nebacanezer to leave and hamann let them go.

I believe he met the Oracle as well. For whatever reason. But it is possible he has a hidden agenda. By hidden I mean that whatever the Oracle told him (or any other manifestation of the A.I.) he does not share it with the general population or with the captains. Possibly with some members of the council itself.

You may be quite right there Happy Kine. Another form of control.

or the coincillor fears neo would take leadership from him..it happens to those who do not want to leave power......

well ush, i didnt say that i thought he was a machine i just said what if. also he very well could be in league with them or why not a machine? you say that zion isnt that stupid, well neither are the machines to just send in a completely unbeleiveable cyborge. hell maybe he is very much like bain, a man with his mind taken over by machine. we just dont know so i was just throwing it out there.

You make it sound like Hamann is a terminator of some sort, like Arnold.
I think he could definitly be in league with the machines. What if though, the anomoly before Neo, before he died told one of the counsel about the plan and that it was the only way to secure their existence. then Hamann wanting to secure the existence of human life, would naturally say Humans need machines and Machines need humans.

A Bane-like agent is actually possinble (unlike the cyborg idea which just is not practical when he would a. be subject to medical examination and b. have to fight in a war in which EMPs are used) but I rather suspect that this is an ability of Smith's and no-one elses, and furthermore I believe there is nothing more to Hamann at all.

I think he's human. The people of Zion have all sorts of sensors for picking up machines. It wouldn't make sense if he was a cyborg.

And he's just wise. He is a Councilman after all.

It doesn't make sense that he would be a cyborg, He could just be wise, but the matrix has been know to decieve. Look at the oracles first remarks to Neo. She told him what he needed to hear. What if councilman Hamann was just telling Neo what he needed to hear about the control between human and machines?

well i agree, i think he is human. just playing a little devils advocate.

I would bet the counsellor has knowledge about the repeating versions of the Matrix. Not first hand, but passed down from previous leaders. He understands the symbiosis that has developed between Man & Machiene. I think he tries to soften Neo up - not to just hate all machienes (for the control via the Matrix), but perhaps to get him recognize they serve a "purpose" as well. Well at least their point of view, by pointing out in a sense Zion keep machienes in the engineering level as their "slaves" to keep their world functioning at status quo. I believe he was preping Neo for the meeting with the Architect guy. He wanted this version of Neo to pick the right door and save Zion. To do that Neo would need to admit Humans & Machiene needed each other to suvive.

I agree he is human too. But just because he is a councilperson doesn't make him beyond doing something dastardly. Also take into account that Anthony Zerbe plays lots and lots of questionable individuals. He's good.

Another poster suggested that he may be a cyborg. I agree that it is possible being that the inhabitants of Zion would have not means or cause to suspect a cyborg. THe A.I. has not engaged in creating cyborgs in the past.

I got the distinct impression from the Councilor’s speech with Neo on the Engineering level that the final battle (Revolutions) is not going to be between the Humans and the Machines.

The Councilor seemed to be telling Neo in no uncertain terms that the machines are not true the enemies of the humans, and that without the machines the humans wouldn’t even be able to survive.

That is exactly what he was saying. When Neo asked him what was the Councilors point... Hamann answered that there is no point. Old men don't make points. So like the Architect, Hamann gave veiled truths, but no real stark conclusion for Neo to pick up on right away.

So M.W. if the machines aren't the "true enemy" of mankind, who or what is their enemy in your opinion?

Humankind is its own enemy. It created the A.I. in it's own mental image. The A.I. got powerful and the humans tried shutting it down like in all the other A.I. type movies and scenarios. Being a "creative and independent intelligence" the A.I. fought back in the most logical fashion... it took over the humans.