Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
More there actual comparative showings by RotS.
Because when both were hindered and on even footing, Kenobi ceded inferiority early on, Anakin ragdolled Kenobi, and off course prior to kenobi undhinhering himself, anakin was about to break kenobi's arms and make kenobi kill himself with his own saber.
@Nova
What? Yoda being the most powerful Jedi and Anakin being the most powerful Jedi. Sidious stating that Anakin would surpass Yoda and him ( but that he had not by that point ). As far as I'm concerned, quotes become meaningless when contradicted in the same source. It's why I judge them off of their feats and personally, while I think Anakin could be said to be somewhere between Dooku and either Sidious or Yoda based on feats alone, I don't have him on or even all that close to them as a whole like the majority of this forum seems to.
It is justified to wank underrated characters. People won't change their positions unless they're made to. It's NOT justified to continue wanking Anakin on a forum that already thinks he's some kind of god. Nobody on KMC and very few on CV think he's sub Kenobi. If you want to preach your wank do it in unexplored territory.
What "facts" are you referring to? Contradicted quotes or out of context comparisons?
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
What? Yoda being the most powerful Jedi Anakin being stated to be the most powerful Jedi. Sidious stating that Anakin would surpass Yoda and him ( but that he had not at that point ). As far as I'm concerned, quotes become meaningless when contradicted in the same source. It's why I judge them off of their feats and personally, while I think Anakin could be said to be somewhere between Dooku and either Sidious or Yoda based on feats alone, I don't have him on or even all that close to them as a whole.It is justified to wank underrated characters. They need it and people won't change their positions unless they're made to. It's NOT justified to continue wanking Anakin on a forum that already thinks he's some kind of god. Nobody on KMC and very few on CV think he's sub Kenobi. If you want to preach your wank do it in unexplored territory.
What "facts" are you referring to? Contradicted quotes or out of context comparisons?
1. All of Anakin's most powerful quotes refer to the strength of his connection to the Force, in which case he is the strongest Force user to date. Yoda and Sidious are the most powerful in the sense that we think of on the battle forums: the net amount of power they can actually call upon is greater than Anakin's since their mastery of the Force is so much greater. This isn't anything new. Nobody pretends that the amount of power he brings to bear in fights is in excess of Sidious or Yoda, lol.
For the record, the array of sources referring to how powerful Anakin is eclipse the amount of sources saying Yoda's the most powerful, so even if you looked at it from a black-and-white angle it could be resolved easily. You've got characters like Sidious, Mace and Yoda themselves admitting to Anakin being the most powerful character, then on other occasions that Sidious remarks that Anakin has yet to become more powerful than them. Unless you think the writers are simply that stupid, you might want to consider thinking outside the box and recognizing that they might be referring to different things (ie. raw power and mastered power).
Feats? Anakin beating Dooku that decisively or him destroying Drallig (who's got B-team hype) in an instant while choking Bene at the same time doesn't come off as putting him at a 9? As far as contradictory feats go, all I can think of is the Obi-Wan thing which has been repeatedly addressed, and earlier instances where Anakin isn't a 9 (ie. every single one of his fights prior to him drawing on the dark side against Dooku aboard the Invisible Hand).
2. You know I was joking before, right? If you're acting like wank is a crime then there's no justification for it because it's unfairly promoting a character. That being said, if it's just the facts, then that's totally fine.
3. The fact that he's a level 9, which is contradicted by nothing. That seems to the main area of contention. And I mean, when I posted the thread compiling the feats and accolades relating to him in RotS, you couldn't even stand it and had to post dozens of low showings from him in TCW (none of which were relevant because they all took place when he was vastly pre-prime). Can't exactly call me out for bias when you can't even stand the sight of a respect thread and have to publicly show disrespect to the character in it. 😬
1. That's what I'm referring to. And two things. First, I said "on or even approaching RotS Sidious and Yoda's level." Secondly, there are many who actually think he is a match for RotS Sidious and Yoda on CV. Excess wanking has consequences that none of you seem to understand. You may think it's funny to exaggerate at the time but people who are less knowledgeable don't understand the flaws of the argument. It's why Ant's Revan arguments cause so much trouble throughout the communities despite them being able to be seen through by anybody familiar with the material. The people who don't understand that he uses contradictions and loopholes within the continuity itself to make his arguments, fall for them. It's makes SW fans dumber as a whole.
2. It's not "unfair" to promote a character who's underrated. Facts are perfectly fine. Undue extrapolation from those facts ( wanking ) isn't when the character is already placed where he should be. Think Ant and Revan ( bad wank ) in comparison to Beni and Tenebrous ( good wank ).
3. With there being large gaps within the tiers themselves as per the guy who made them. Gaps that would logically only grow larger the higher up they go.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova3. With there being large gaps within the tiers themselves as per the guy who made them. Gaps that would logically only grow larger the higher up they go. [/B]
"Feats? Anakin beating Dooku that decisively or him destroying Drallig (who's got B-team hype) in an instant while choking Bene at the same time doesn't come off as putting him at a 9? As far as contradictory feats go, all I can think of is the Obi-Wan thing which has been repeatedly addressed, and earlier instances where Anakin isn't a 9 (ie. every single one of his fights prior to him drawing on the dark side against Dooku aboard the Invisible Hand)."
I don't know about this "T9" garbage but it doesn't put him close to Sidious/Yoda.
I never said "contradictory feats" I said "out of context comparisons" which wasn't even specifically in reference to you but the general tactics of Anakin wankers who try to make the argument that Anakin is around Yoda or Sidious level.
"3. The fact that he's a level 9, which is contradicted by nothing. That seems to the main area of contention. And I mean, when I posted the thread compiling the feats and accolades relating to him in RotS, you couldn't even stand it and had to post dozens of low showings from him in TCW (none of which were relevant because they all took place when he was vastly pre-prime). Can't exactly call me out for bias when you can't even stand the sight of a respect thread and have to publicly show disrespect to the character in it. erm"
I was showing you a mirror image of your thread. Your best Anakin moments in comparison to his worst and why some of the feats you posted may have lacked certain necessary context or extrapolation as to why his performance was such.
1/2. There's plenty of people who undersell Anakin. I don't know what you're talking about. Recent threads on CV have had several people, reputable and otherwise, rejecting the Anakin wank and outright saying that he's overrated. No idea where you're getting that it's now a consensus that he's Yoda/Sidious level, because the vast majority of people definitely don't think that. For the record, though, Lucas himself said Anakin was "as strong as the Emperor". And no, I don't think it's funny to overwank characters, but I definitely don't think it's funny to see users constantly passing judgements without even knowing what characters are capable of (we have a great recent example with the Anakin vs Angral thread). Half the time on CV it was me telling people like Necromancer to stop thinking that Revan could ragdoll Anakin or something. What's so unbearable about that?
3. There's large gaps between each tier, yeah, but Gillard has also said twice that when you get to level 9, there's no longer a difference in talent, just style and environmental differences that decide the outcome of a fight. I just posted both of the quotes on the Sidious/Yoda thing on the EU section.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
syn, tier 9 doesn't at all have a massive gap, the gap is indicated to be marginal, and besides, we have lucas's own fcking statement that anakin is up there with yoda/sids
Considering the person who made the tiers outright states that the gaps between the tiers and within the tiers are rather large, you're wrong.
Sure. How close, we don't know. And that's wherein lies the issue.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I don't know about this "T9" garbage but it doesn't put him close to Sidious/Yoda.
So you're confessing that you don't even know what we're talking about, yet you're still trying to poison the well by calling it "garbage" and you're claiming that it doesn't put him close to Sidious and Yoda despite having no idea what it entails?
I can sum this up in three words. You're in denial.
I never said "contradictory feats" I said "out of context comparisons" which wasn't even specifically in reference to you but the general tactics of Anakin wankers who try to make the argument that Anakin is around Yoda or Sidious level.
What's out-of-context about the level 9 comparisons? The fact that he's only like that when he draws on the dark side? Yeah, I made that distinction and recognized that he's only an 8 otherwise. In fact, I corrected people believing that Anakin was a 9 even without drawing on the dark side just yesterday: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/may-the-fourth-be-with-you-jedi-order-tag-team-bat-1874410/#js-message-40
Your characterization of me as someone who just has a vested interest in putting Anakin up as high as possible and spreading that thought around is blatantly wrong. You can see right there in that thread that I correct two people that place Anakin higher than he deserves. My interest isn't in ranking Anakin as high as possible; it's in ranking him as correctly as possible.
I was showing you a mirror image of your thread. Your best Anakin moments in comparison to his worst and why some of the feats you posted may have lacked certain necessary context or extrapolation as to why his performance was such.
If you want to show me a mirror image, you make your own disrespect thread. You don't try to shit on people's RT's by posting low showings in them; that's a textbook case of bias against the character if ever I've seen one. Why don't you show a mirror image of other respect threads? Right, because you don't have an inherent confirmation bias against them like you do with Anakin.
Lacking context? Is that why you're going to post low showings from TCW when he's vastly, vastly pre-prime? Where was your disclaimer that your low showings were also out of context because he was vastly pre-prime?
Originally posted by SunRazer
1/2. There's plenty of people who undersell Anakin. I don't know what you're talking about. Recent threads on CV have had several people, reputable and otherwise, rejecting the Anakin wank and outright saying that he's overrated. No idea where you're getting that it's now a consensus that he's Yoda/Sidious level, because the vast majority of people definitely don't think that. For the record, though, Lucas himself said Anakin was "as strong as the Emperor". And no, I don't think it's funny to overwank characters, but I definitely don't think it's funny to see users constantly passing judgements without even knowing what characters are capable of (we have a great recent example with the Anakin vs Angral thread). Half the time on CV it was me telling people like Necromancer to stop thinking that Revan could ragdoll Anakin or something. What's so unbearable about that?3. There's large gaps between each tier, yeah, but Gillard has also said twice that when you get to level 9, there's no longer a difference in talent, just style and environmental differences that decide the outcome of a fight. I just posted both of the quotes on the Sidious/Yoda thing on the EU section.
1/2. I never said the consensus. You're putting words in my mouth. I said there's people on CV ( like Kbro ) who believe that.
"For the record, though, Lucas himself said Anakin was "as strong as the Emperor"
Quote?
I don't begrudge MOST of your actions on CV ( aside from your main thread ). I'm referring to KMC for the most part.
3. There's a difference in power though which IS relevant. Link it please.
Originally posted by SunRazer
So you're confessing that you don't even know what we're talking about, yet you're still trying to poison the well by calling it "garbage" and you're claiming that it doesn't put him close to Sidious and Yoda despite having no idea what it entails?I can sum this up in three words. You're in denial.
What's out-of-context about the level 9 comparisons? The fact that he's only like that when he draws on the dark side? Yeah, I made that distinction and recognized that he's only an 8 otherwise. In fact, I corrected people believing that Anakin was a 9 even without drawing on the dark side just yesterday: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/may-the-fourth-be-with-you-jedi-order-tag-team-bat-1874410/#js-message-40
If you want to show me a mirror image, you make your own disrespect thread. You don't try to shit on people's RT's by posting low showings in them; that's a textbook case of bias against the character if ever I've seen one. Why don't you show a mirror image of other respect threads? Right, because you don't have an inherent confirmation bias against them like you do with Anakin.
Lacking context? Is that why you're going to post low showings from TCW when he's vastly, vastly pre-prime? Where was your disclaimer that your low showings were also out of context because he was vastly pre-prime?
If you do this ( and by this, I mean twist my words ) again we're done. I understand what we're talking about in regards to what the rankings mean. I'm saying that while Anakin may be "T9" his feats don't place him within the Sidious/Yoda range for employable power.
I appreciate that then.
Because, imo only Anakin and Revan are popular enough to have whole threads dedicated to wanking them and I feel they have the largest negative impact on the community as they are popular characters in and of themselves. Nihilus too but I'm generally not equipped to counter that sort of wank.
I didn't need to provide context sine I wasn't there to fairly rank Anakin. I was there to combat rampant wank and bring people back down to earth.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1/2. I never said the consensus. You're putting words in my mouth. I said there's people on CV ( like Kbro ) who believe that.
You told me my actions were wrong because there were enough (ie. too many) people already believing in Anakin being Yoda/Sidious tier and that it'd be unjust to keep pushing that down people's throats. Which is wrong, and now you're backtracking.
"For the record, though, Lucas himself said Anakin was "as strong as the Emperor"Quote?
Here:
"You got it. And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor – he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."-- http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/george-lucas-and-the-cult-of-darth-vader-20050602
Clear as day, and no, it's not referring to potential because he already distinguishes that earlier on by referring to Anakin's potential as being more powerful than Palpatine, not equally powerful.
I don't begrudge MOST of your actions on CV. I'm referring to KMC mostly.
Is that why you said you regretted Ant and I spreading our Anakin wank over CV in your absence?
I'm not doing anything different on KMC, for the record.
3. There's a difference in power though which IS relevant. Link it please.
I'll just get you bloody quotes:
Level nine, the highest level of lightsaber fighting, is occupied by a small number of capable sword masters, including Yoda and Darth Sidious. At so high a ranking, it comes down to individual fighting styles as well as the circumstances of the surroundings that make a difference.
"The level is not necessarily an indication of the performer's talent, but it takes a truly gifted and physically skilled actor to play a powerful Jedi combatant. 'Hayden Christensen is one of the best there is,' says Gillard. 'I've seen hundreds of sword fighters, people who do it for a living, and he leaves them all in his wake. His style has changed a bit since Episode II, when he was only a level seven. On this he's a level nine.' For the curious, Gillard does not reveal any Jedi who has achieved level ten. The highest is nine, occupied by a small number of capable sword masters, including Yoda and Darth Sidious. At so high a ranking, it comes down to individual fighting styles as well as the circumstances of the surroundings that make a difference."
Level 9 is essentially the cap. You're so good now that the only differences between you and another level 9 character are stylistic and environmental, not inherent.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
If you do this ( and by this, I mean twist my words ) again we're done. I understand what we're talking about in regards to what the rankings mean. I'm saying that while Anakin may be "T9" his feats don't place him within the Sidious/Yoda range for employable power.I appreciate that then.
Because, imo only Anakin and Revan are popular enough to have whole threads dedicated to wanking them and I feel they have the largest negative impact on the community as they are popular characters in and of themselves. Nihilus too but I'm generally not equipped to counter that sort of wank.
I didn't need to provide context sine I wasn't there to fairly rank Anakin. I was there to combat rampant wank and bring people back down to earth.
1. I didn't twist anything. I was referring to Anakin being on Sidious and Yoda's level as a swordsman there the whole time, so either you couldn't keep up with the discussion or you're being disingenuous. Don't threaten me when you're not even following the discussion. The part where I was mentioning tier 9 was explicitly in reference to swordsmanship, since those rankings are only in relation to bladework. Just take a look at it again:
Feats? Anakin beating Dooku that decisively or him destroying Drallig (who's got B-team hype) in an instant while choking Bene at the same time doesn't come off as putting him at a 9? As far as contradictory feats go, all I can think of is the Obi-Wan thing which has been repeatedly addressed, and earlier instances where Anakin isn't a 9 (ie. every single one of his fights prior to him drawing on the dark side against Dooku aboard the Invisible Hand).
You can see that the entire paragraph is about him as a swordsman, not in terms of Force powers mid-combat or anything else. I'm not here to repeat myself; either you read and follow what I say or **** off. Don't misinterpret what I say and then blame me for twisting it and threaten me.
2. Anakin isn't nearly as popular as Revan. You're deluded if you think that. A sizable portion of CV's community has only just begun to appreciate Anakin at all; certainly not back when I made the thread.
3. "Counter rampant wank"? I made that thread because most people didn't know of or didn't care about most of that stuff at that point. You're completely in denial and you're just making nonsensical excuses for what's completely inexcusable conduct. You don't shit on anyone's respect thread with piles of out-of-context, irrelevant low showings, full stop. That's disrespectful and rude to the user who posted the blog as well. You might think it's just shit and giggles but it's offensive. People put hard work into showing why a character should be where he is and you just throw sludge bombs of low showings because you can't stand the sight of the character being ranked that way. There's no possible way you can justify what you did in that thread and you know it: what you did was wrong, period. That's all there is to it, and you can't even own up to that.