Originally posted by RobtardDoesn't override the facts. Batman beat him with weakness exploitation, Doomsday impales him, etc.
Superman's fight speed while others are by comparison statues puts him ridiculously ahead here and against most other MVF opponents; ever fewer can beat him now. eg Metro Man is above Supes still, but MM is a cartoon.
Overrated.
Originally posted by The EllimistI do not. I look at the totality of the situations while assessing what's in character. Superman isn't a I'm going to kill you in less than a second kind of guy. So people trying to change the core of the character isn't how to debate Superman it's how to debate a blank powerset.
^ why do you classify feats that better suit you as "facts" that override more impressive feats?
Originally posted by quanchi112
I do not. I look at the totality of the situations while assessing what's in character. Superman isn't a I'm going to kill you in less than a second kind of guy. So people trying to change the core of the character isn't how to debate Superman it's how to debate a blank powerset.
In Justice League he speedblitzes several times. The only times he doesn't are when he was in his disoriented state and neither party knew whether they were about to fight or not, and then when he lets Wonder Woman headbutt him because it didn't threaten him at all.
As soon as he faces Steppenwolf the first thing he does after punching him is speedblitz him. Well, he more like speed-toys with him but it's the same outcome.
Originally posted by The EllimistThe headbutt clearly hurt him. Sure it didn't ko him but it does impact him. I hear excuses as to dismiss him being lasso'd or hit.
In Justice League he speedblitzes several times. The only times he doesn't are when he was in his disoriented state and neither party knew whether they were about to fight or not, and then when he lets Wonder Woman headbutt him [b]because it didn't threaten him at all.As soon as he faces Steppenwolf the first thing he does after punching him is speedblitz him. Well, he more like speed-toys with him but it's the same outcome. [/B]
He doesn't defeat Steppenwolf just hits him. The same thing against the JL. We see he clearly doesn't insta destroy anyone with a speed blitz.
Lol so your point here is that Fox QS is better at using his speed than Superman?
Your points against Clark, in addition to not paying attention to context at all, could be applied against every character with any meaningful set of feats. But when you personally like the character you'll make excuses.
Originally posted by The EllimistIronic since you used Luke's mindsets against him while ignoring the fact the JL in the middle of Superman fighting them saying please don't do this. Difference is Luke went there with his lightsaber ignited so he was able to defend himself. The team brought him back to life and were able to seen themselves but also didn't want to fight. You were caught red handed using double standards. You like Luke that's why.
Lol so your point here is that Fox QS is better at using his speed than Superman?Your points against Clark, in addition to not paying attention to context at all, could be applied against every character with any meaningful set of feats. But when you personally like the character you'll make excuses.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ironic since you used Luke's mindsets against him while ignoring the fact the JL in the middle of Superman fighting them saying please don't do this. Difference is Luke went there with his lightsaber ignited so he was able to defend himself. The team brought him back to life and were able to seen themselves but also didn't want to fight. You were caught red handed using double standards. You like Luke that's why.
Nah, because none of this explains Steppenwolf. Your red herrings about how much damage Superman caused aside (as we are talking about speed here and you have no idea how durable Steppenwolf is), the other JL members were struggling against him and then Superman shows up and Steppenwolf literally looks like a statue to him and can't even touch him.
Superman >>>>>>>>>>>>>...>>>>> Steppenwolf >= the rest of the Justice League. Accept it.
(not that there's any reason to think that WW and the rest were slowing themselves down by 10,000 times against Clark)
Originally posted by The EllimistHe just hit Steppenwolf so what is your point ? He also uses freeze breath on his axe the team assists in breaking. Superman doesn't solo and helps the team against a very weak villain. Superman is faster than Steppenwolf but doesn't defeat him in moments like you claim.
Nah, because none of this explains Steppenwolf. Your red herrings about how much damage Superman caused aside (as we are talking about speed here and you have no idea how durable Steppenwolf is), the other JL members were struggling against him and then Superman shows up and Steppenwolf literally looks like a statue to him and can't even touch him.Superman >>>>>>>>>>>>>...>>>>> Steppenwolf >= the rest of the Justice League. Accept it.
(not that there's any reason to think that WW and the rest were slowing themselves down by 10,000 times against Clark)
Nah. The league wasn't there to fight him. Batman alone beat him when he wanted to kill him.
Clark gave up fighting when Natman used his big gun Lois. He is smarter than Superman and still got him to stop without having to stand over his chest in dominance like the last time.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He just hit Steppenwolf so what is your point ?
lmao, dude how could you possibly watch Superman's fight with Steppenwolf and downplay it as "he just hit him"? Did you even watch the movie?
- After Superman punches him across the room, Steppenwolf charges at him and tries to throw a punch. We then see things from Superman's perspective in which Steppenwolf is so slow he literally appears to be standing still.
- Superman smirks as he dodges the punch, then as Steppenwolf tries to hit him again Clark punches him through the floor.
- Later Superman casually flies in, slams Steppenwolf to the ground, heat lasers him, and then tosses him aside like a toy.
In what universe was Steppenwolf remotely competing with Superman? How do you compete with someone to whom you move so slowly you look like a statue?
Superman doesn't solo
Strawman, again. Yawn.
and helps the team against a very weak villain.
And yet again you shoot yourself in the foot. Wonder Woman was LOSING against that "very weak villain", lol. Then Superman beat him like a toy. Steppenwolf must have suspected this would happen because he only started making a move for Earth after Superman died.
Nah. The league wasn't there to fight him. Batman alone beat him when he wanted to kill him.
Oh, so Wonder Woman was just moving 10,000 times slower than Clark because that's supposed to be helpful in restraining him?
Clark gave up fighting when Natman used his big gun Lois. He is smarter than Superman and still got him to stop without having to stand over his chest in dominance like the last time.
Irrelevant.
Originally posted by The EllimistSo I say again what's impressive he's faster and hits him. He does no significant damage and it was a team vs him. I am not impressed by punches that do nothing significant to a slower opponent. Hurt the guy, Clark.
lmao, dude how could you possibly watch Superman's fight with Steppenwolf and downplay it as "he just hit him"? Did you even watch the movie?- After Superman punches him across the room, Steppenwolf charges at him and tries to throw a punch. We then see things from Superman's perspective in which Steppenwolf is so slow [b]he literally appears to be standing still
.- Superman smirks as he dodges the punch, then as Steppenwolf tries to hit him again Clark punches him through the floor.
[/B]
Results and damage matter. He's faster than Batman but did he beat him despite attacking him and being faster than he is ?
- Later Superman casually flies in, slams Steppenwolf to the ground, heat lasers him, and then tosses him aside like a toy.In what universe was Steppenwolf remotely competing with Superman? How do you compete with someone to whom you move so slowly you look like a statue?
Strawman, again. Yawn.[/B]
Superman didn't beat him. He's also stronger and faster than WW. What is your point ? Both hurt Steppenwolf but neither hurt him critically.
And yet again you shoot yourself in the foot. Wonder Woman was LOSING against that "very weak villain", lol. Then Superman beat him like a toy. Steppenwolf must have suspected this would happen because he only started making a move for Earth after Superman died.Oh, so Wonder Woman was just moving 10,000 times slower than Clark because that's supposed to be helpful in restraining him?
Irrelevant. [/B]
Superman is faster but he isn't fast enough to avoid all of her attacks. Lasso, headbutt, also not wanting to fight but trying to tell him to stop.
Tactics matter.
Originally posted by The EllimistBy the same trashy logic why didn't Superman rip off Doomsday's limbs since WW cut one off. Superman needed WW holding Doomsday and Batman using knite to provide the opening for Superman to plunge the spear into him. Neither WW or Superman critically injured Steppenwolf.
Why wasn't her skill and weaponry allowing her to do better against Steppenwolf again?