In fact, in that very thread (sadly now closed, hindering my ability to quote) a mod had to step in and remind everyone that we used current versions of the characters.
And yes, it was in reference to you, blue, and your used of Rulk. AGAIN.
Towards the end of the page:
Guys, current versions unless otherwise stated.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=569460&pagenumber=6
It's an admirable effort, D.S.
Doesn't help you in this thread, though.
Here, in this thread, we ARE talking about Loebforce Rulk.
Versus Death of Superman-era Doomsday AS he appeared in DOS.
Now, I don't recall you actually giving your opinion BASED on DOS DD and Loebforce Rulk. Only debating whether Booster Gold had full force shields with JBL on page 1. I agree with the side that says DD wasn't all that impressive. I don't have DOS in front of me at the moment; maybe there's some scene I'm forgetting, but, I look at the following and think, "Doomsday seemed fast largely to people who were reacting from surprise or who had largely exhausted themselves. Even so, even being compromised, they survived what DD dished out. Even Booster Gold, who seems to have been operating at a fraction of his normal power ..."
Blast.
It seems TurboImageHost really DOES develop problems the closer it gets to Wednesday. Would have sworn my first scan, showing Booster Gold explaining his power was nearly drained and likening himself to Pee Wee Herman, displayed a moment ago.
Well, let's see if that first scan, which should have preceded everything shown a post ago, will load now, along with an enlargement of the most relevant panels:
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It's an admirable effort, D.S.Doesn't help you in this thread, though.
Here, in this thread, we ARE talking about Loebforce Rulk.
Versus Death of Superman-era Doomsday AS he appeared in DOS.
I know.
I was merely replying to the post that you had quoted in this thread, from a thread that had different stips.
I mean,if you wanted me to see your post, I too wanted you to see my post.
If you wanted to showcase to others how you thought you were in the right, I too just wanted others to see that it was not the case.
Your reasons for quoting yourself from another thread, in other words, is the same reason j quoted myself.
Congratulations on hijacking that thread, despite admitting you knew the OP meant someone entirely different, to safely insult Carver and myself, Dark.
That was reasonably skillful work.
In the meantime, though, I DO want to see if anyone can make a strong case for DD on his Death of Superman feats. The further this thread progresses, the less I believe he does, for the only counters have come from speed, which I specified would be equalized here, and retcons that came after DOS.
Gonna post a link to Rulk's respect thread on this forum, one, for convenience, two, to allow people the chance to predict where I might go argument-wise and the showings they'll need to counter:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t490624.html
Now, since I don't have my own TurboImage illustration of the Rulk punchquake
Rick as A-Bomb survived this 9-on-the-Richter-Scale punch.
Judging from the level of punching a nearly exhausted Superman put Doomsday down with, I say Rulk scores a win against DD by knockout if not outright takeout.
Is there anything in DOS to argue convincingly against this?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
[B]Congratulations on hijacking that thread, despite admitting you knew the OP meant someone entirely different, to safely insult Carver and myself, Dark.
That was reasonably skillful work.
Not sure how educating you is meant to be insulting? Nor was I admitting anything, I merely pointed out that current Rulk (which is what forum rules dictate we use, AND was what Carver had been referring to) was Maverick.
YOU'RE the one who jumped in with both feet, claiming that I hadn't told anyone until page 4. Another piece of errata on your part.
And retcons, incidentally, still count. That is the whole point of them.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And retcons, incidentally, still count.
Not in this thread they don't.
I'm not bothered by people mentioning them, mind you.
Nor, within reason, am I going to discourage speculation.
But if it's not from Death of Superman for Doomsday, I'm not going to spend a great deal of time responding to or entertaining it.
No victory should be claimed by collateral damage, unless planets are cracked and moons are smashed to pieces.
DD is solid mass, he could of soaked all the energy from that
richter scale 9 punch for all you know Blue, leaving not a single reverberation.
Comparing collateral damage is just a murky road to go down.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Not in this thread they don't.I'm not bothered by people mentioning them, mind you.
Nor, within reason, am I going to discourage speculation.But if it's not from Death of Superman for Doomsday, I'm not going to spend a great deal of time responding to or entertaining it.
Which slightly goes against forum rulings about using canon sources.
Yet, a by-the-by tangent. Am curious, however, how you were willing to entertain notions from Hunter/Prey Doomsday (a different storyline altogether)?
After all, from the DoS storyline, Doomsday had no energy to siphon off. There was never any proof that he relied on solar energy. That was added later. In the H/P story.
NOT, in the DoS story. Happy to be corrected, though.
Why does it matter? In THIS thread, Rulk would have nothing to amp off. He would get madder, but he does NOT get stronger. Instead, he gets hotter, burning himself out.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Am curious ... how you were willing to entertain notions from Hunter/Prey Doomsday (a different storyline altogether)?
Presumably you refer to my originally posting the above visuals?
I don't mind exploring good ideas OR providing corroborating evidence for others.
Pretty sure I've done the first with you, and the latter is one of the few values I share with Salsa and Delta, who before now have often provided scans on request for me.
Cdtm's effort to use DD overcoming Booster Gold's force fields was the cleverest attempt at giving the character a strength feat on this board that I've yet seen. Why would I not reward that if I can?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Presumably you refer to my originally posting the above visuals?
I don't mind exploring good ideas OR providing corroborating evidence for others.
Pretty sure I've done the first with you, and the latter is one of the few values I share with Salsa and Delta, who before now have often provided scans on request for me.Cdtm's effort to use DD overcoming Booster Gold's force fields was the cleverest attempt at giving the character a strength feat on this board that I've yet seen. Why would I not reward that if I can?
Ah, a textbook case in why NOT to make assumptions.
I am NOT referring to that, at all.
Although, thanks for pointing out a second time in this very thread you have done so - despite insisting that you are not going to entertain notions from any other storyline except DoS, and then, only notions that were displayed in the original story.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It is annoying beyond belief when TurboImageHost does what it's doing this week. Not yet as bad as when I started here years ago, but I'd gotten lulled by the ease and reliability of the service to such a point that my old way of posting is nearly intolerable to me now.Anyway, I perused some of Doomsday Hunter/Prey as Salsa suggested and noted the sections where Doomsday went against Radiant. Noticed something of interest:
www.4GP.ME/ba3s/1497556873143.jpg
Radiant attacked DD with what is described as " pure energy".
Interestingly, he seems to have killed DD by completely overloading his body with energy, as their battle lasted days:
www.4GP.ME/ba3s/1497558415166.jpg
... whereupon, of course, Doomsday was suited as we saw him to begin the Death of Superman storyline ...
www.4GP.ME/ba3s/1497558591798.jpg
This is interesting because, of course, sunlight IS radiant energy.
And DD's body being overloaded by energy means he would have had a LOT of energy stored to sustain himself once he resurrected.
Enough to go well beyond the one millennia mark a [b]small
meal of energy would permit? Many times that?Worth a mention. [/B]
In this thread, DoS Doomsday NEVER showed that he was powered by solar energy, or could be overloaded, or anything like that.
Which is, after all, a go-to weapon in this Rulk's arsenal.
So in the absence of that, it would not be able to be used.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85In this thread, DoS Doomsday NEVER showed that he was powered by solar energy, or could be overloaded, or anything like that.
Which is, after all, a go-to weapon in this Rulk's arsenal.
So in the absence of that, it would not be able to be used.
I didn't understand it when Salsa or Delta brought this up, and I don't understand it from you now, either.
Did Rulk use ray blasts extensively in the Loeb run and I missed it?
Where are you guys getting the idea that I or anyone else am saying Rulk will overload Doomsday with energy?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I didn't understand it when Salsa or Delta brought this up, and I don't understand it from you now, either.Did Rulk use ray blasts extensively in the Loeb run and I missed it?
Where are you guys getting the idea that I or anyone else am saying Rulk will overload Doomsday with energy?
Hence the use of the word 'or', and the words 'anything like that'.
The main point is that this:
And DD's body being overloaded by energy means he would have had a LOT of energy stored to sustain himself once he resurrected.
Is NOT from the DoS storyline. Yet, you seem content to entertain this, when it suited you.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm noting with interest that I have yet to see anyone save cdtm bring up anything from Death of Superman (DOS) that would suggest Doomsday even has a fighting chance against Rulk. IN more than 4 pages of posts now.Part of the reason I posted some of the material you first criticized was to help cdtm corroborate his stance; I thought it a quite clever way for him to give a strength feat to Doomsday where otherwise none seems to exist.
Galan can uncharacteristically try egging me on for saying that, and did.
You, who have performed similar service for debate opponents, including myself, should know better. I don't think you really have failed to notice that my scans help frame cdtm's argument better, even as they counter some of the points as well; I'm a little puzzled over how you're acting.
You think that's the only thing you've brought up that's outside the DOS storyline? You bringing-up Doomsday and energy at all is an example, as DS pointed out. Whether overloading or draining Doomsday, the only arguments that can remotely be made for Rulk there are from outside DOS. Why else would you bring up Monica failing against Hulk and Doomsday against the Radiant in HUNTER/PREY?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You err if you truly think I made this topic solely, or even largely, from any desire to see Doomsday lose. One, I rarely post ANYTHING on this forum with only one objective in mind. Two, Rulk is not a favorite character of mine.
Why does Rulk not being a favorite character of yours matter when you hate Superman? You deny it, but you sure prove otherwise. You're just not as butthurt as some others. You've handicapped Doomsday in equalizing speed, said only DOS Doomsday feats are allowed, and you're breaking your own rule there when it suits you. What conclusion can I come to other than you made this because you want Doomsday to lose?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Three, I don't see where Jurgens' Superman in DOS gave damage output even equal to what Rulk dished out against Rick Jones as A-Bomb.
Rulk was producing earthquakes that measured 8.0 on the Richter scale as a side effect of his blows and accidentally killed a village's stock of people. Does DOS have anything comparable from Superman? You should refresh my memory if it does.
This is the place for it.
Yeah, of course you're going to focus on collateral damage like it's the be all end all when it suits you. Superman before his first power-up has feats that are better than that, and he was hurting his hands punching Doomsday. Doomsday was beating the JLA with literally one hand tied behind his back. That alone impresses me more than what you're bringing up.
Originally posted by Delta1938You've handicapped Doomsday in equalizing speed, said only DOS Doomsday feats are allowed, and you're breaking your own rule there when it suits you. What conclusion can I come to other than you made this because you want Doomsday to lose?
I didn't handicap Doomsday. I sped up Red Hulk.
And I didn't make this because I want Doomsday to lose.
I made it because I knew, as did you, that the poster of that other thread wanted to know how Thunderbolt Ross Red Hulk would do versus Doomsday, not whoever or whatever Marvel is trying to pass off as Red Hulk these days,
and certainly not whoever DarkSaint was trying to force on the OP.
And also because I was and am curious as to who people think would win.
It was actually an insight gained through interacting with you that most convinces me Rulk would win this, Delta. Namely that the power of a hero in both the absolute sense AND relative to his or her peers changes under various writers and throughout various times. Wonder Woman 1992 is not comparable to Wonder Woman 2005, for instance. Superman 1987 does not compare to Superman 2007. Neither will the villains of a hero in "weaker" time periods compare to the villains that match the hero when the hero is at a peak of power.
Perhaps I can illustrate this with a showing from part of the Death of Superman storyline. Adventures of Superman #497, I believe.
Ask yourself: Would Maxima even be considered a great match even for the relatively weak Gray Hulk if I made a versus thread between the two? Yet does any deliberate action by Doomsday do much to dissuade Maxima here? Is DD not tossed about by Maxima's punches here? Would the explosion that knocks out Maxima AND Superman here affect Rulk the same way? What does it say if Superman of this era can be taken down by such a thing and Doomsday later has trouble dropping him, as DD similarly failed to do with DIRECT attack against Maxima?
Originally posted by Delta1938Doomsday was beating the JLA with literally one hand tied behind his back. That alone impresses me more than what you're bringing up.
I'm not sure why. Xavier and his original X-Men team could probably take this version of the JLA down. They generally seem incompetent as a group.
To be fair, plot probably demands that they be. But it was actually an early showing by you that convinced me the characters of this era were punks compared to their later incarnations, and you made a striking illustration with this lady:
That was printed just the year before Death of Superman, if memory serves.
1992 versus 1993.
http://www.amazonarchives.com/wwspec1.htm
If Wonder Woman, the person who is now considered by many to be the 2nd most powerful Justice Leaguer, is struggling against competition on that level, a level that even Spider-Man could probably deal with, what does this suggest for the group as a whole during this period, let alone it's leader?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which slightly goes against forum rulings about using canon sources.Yet, a by-the-by tangent. Am curious, however, how you were willing to entertain notions from Hunter/Prey Doomsday (a different storyline altogether)?
After all, from the DoS storyline, Doomsday had no energy to siphon off. There was never any proof that he relied on solar energy. That was added later. In the H/P story.
NOT, in the DoS story. Happy to be corrected, though.
Why does it matter? In THIS thread, Rulk would have nothing to amp off. He would get madder, but he does NOT get stronger. Instead, he gets hotter, burning himself out.
