Originally posted by Bashar Teg
i wasn't calling anyone out for "you mad, triggered, etc". that's why you're a pathetic hypocrite and i'm not. 🙂
You constantly pull this "it's okay when I do it" nonsense lol. Please continue to lack self awareness to the point you don't see this. You keep on insisting you aren't a pathetic hypocrite 👆
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Except 1. They also target and demonize those who don't even advocate for genocide... basically anyone who supports Trump, which even though I hate the Trump administration, the vast majority of Trump supporters don't believe in genocide.2. They use unethical methods against their political adversaries. Recently the NYC Antifa twitter started Doxxing people, revealing their names, personal information and addresses. They also have a very large history of using violence against their political opponents, with the two confrontations at Berkeley among others being examples. They've even attacked police officers before. A particularly large antifa group BAMN (By Any Means Necessary) had one of its leaders openly advocating in interviews for militant action and violence against their political adversaries, and there have been reports from former members that BAMN functions essentially as a cult, drawing people in and using cult like methods to prevent them from leaving. And Antifa stands in direct opposition to their political opponents even having the right to speak, they're philosophy is that they must be silenced rather than outdebated.
Even if they only did this to legitimate neonazis it is still unethical. Somebody believing in a fascist ideology is not a justification to illegally physically assault them or release their personal information so they can be tracked down and assaulted by others. Let me repeat that, it is not ethical to physically assault someone because of a thought crime. Aside from that though, most of the people they oppose aren't even neonazis or fascists.
These people are not remotely ethical, and it almost disturbs me that so many people are fooled into thinking that a group which uses fascistic violent and unethical methods are an upstanding group of people just because they claim to be anti-fascists.
1. Many Trump supporters voted for him blindly out of partisan politics, the fact that they just wanted "their side" to win. Anybody short of Hitler himself they would have voted for over a Democrat. This doesn't make them evil people necessarily, but many of them are willfully ignorant of the issues because they live in a bubble of denialism. If you haven't dealt with people in denial, they are horrible to deal with. They don't deserve death, but many of them deserve a good kick in the ass and the Ludovico treatment from A Clockwork Orange until they deal with reality the way it is, not the way they WANT it to be.
2. Cite me proof of antifa being some scary organization with power. For every article you show me, I'll show you ten with white supremacist/alt-righters/fascists doing the same thing or worse.
The fact is, Antifa is pretty toothless because of internal fighting. Do you remember Monty Python's Life of Brian and the fighting between the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea? That's pretty much what Antifa is. Some of them are crazy, I'm not denying that, but as a movement, they are fractured and mostly aimless. The fascists on the other hand are united in their hatred of black/brown people, gays, other people who aren't like them, people who won't serve their fascist order, etc.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
1. Many Trump supporters voted for him blindly out of partisan politics, the fact that they just wanted "their side" to win. Anybody short of Hitler himself they would have voted for over a Democrat. This doesn't make them evil people necessarily, but many of them are willfully ignorant of the issues because they live in a bubble of denialism. If you haven't dealt with people in denial, they are horrible to deal with. They don't deserve death, but many of them deserve a good kick in the ass and the Ludovico treatment from A Clockwork Orange until they deal with reality the way it is, not the way they WANT it to be.2. Cite me proof of antifa being some scary organization with power. For every article you show me, I'll show you ten with white supremacist/alt-righters/fascists doing the same thing or worse.
The fact is, Antifa is pretty toothless because of internal fighting. Do you remember Monty Python's Life of Brian and the fighting between the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea? That's pretty much what Antifa is. Some of them are crazy, I'm not denying that, but as a movement, they are fractured and mostly aimless. The fascists on the other hand are united in their hatred of black/brown people, gays, other people who aren't like them, people who won't serve their fascist order, etc.
We're not going to pretend like Trump supporters were the only ones blinded by partisan politics, are we?
Also the folk in Antifa display fascist-like tendencies at times, it's why the name they go by is so hilarious. People shouldn't whine about fascism and then turn around and do things like try to bock people from attending events because you disagree with them, getting violent because you disagree with them, and all that such nonsense the cowards routinely pull. On top of how Antifa routinely label other people fascists when...they aren't fascists lol.
Why rob the word of all meaning when it's not like fascism has 100% been stamped out from the world? It seems like something petulant children would do.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
1. Many Trump supporters voted for him blindly out of partisan politics, the fact that they just wanted "their side" to win. Anybody short of Hitler himself they would have voted for over a Democrat. This doesn't make them evil people necessarily, but many of them are willfully ignorant of the issues because they live in a bubble of denialism. If you haven't dealt with people in denial, they are horrible to deal with. They don't deserve death, but many of them deserve a good kick in the ass and the Ludovico treatment from A Clockwork Orange until they deal with reality the way it is, not the way they WANT it to be.
Either way, being partisan towards the Republicans or voting for Trump out of ignorance isn't remotely the same as being a fascist, which is the premise upon which they demonize and justify the methods they use against their political adversaries. Let me repeat this, even if your statement here is 100% accurate, the premise behind their movement that even most of the people they oppose are fascists is not justified.
And I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you aren't serious about violence being justified against these people because that would be morally repugnant, unethical, and illegal, but if I'm wrong in assuming you don't actually believe violence towards these people is justified feel free to correct me.
Also, if that Clockwork Orange reference is an indication that you like a Clockwork Orange, then props to you because I love that book/movie.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
2. Cite me proof of antifa being some scary organization with power. For every article you show me, I'll show you ten with white supremacist/alt-righters/fascists doing the same thing or worse.The fact is, Antifa is pretty toothless because of internal fighting. Do you remember Monty Python's Life of Brian and the fighting between the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea? That's pretty much what Antifa is. Some of them are crazy, I'm not denying that, but as a movement, they are fractured and mostly aimless. The fascists on the other hand are united in their hatred of black/brown people, gays, other people who aren't like them, people who won't serve their fascist order, etc.
And what fascist order are you talking about? There is an imaginary fascist order in the minds of the shitty people you have mentioned that they will try and pathetically fail to create, but we do not live in a remotely fascist order.
And thankfully Antifa is largely powerless as a political movement on a national scale, however their capacity to physically harm the individuals who they assault troubles me regardless of their lack of national influence on politics, which is why New Jersey labeling them as terrorists pleases me, just as I'd want any violent white supremacist group labeled that way as well.
There is actually one Antifa group called BAMN (by any means necessary) that is rather prevalent in Berkeley that I wouldn't say is toothless in its area of operation. Thus far it has incited a massive riot, which included violence and property damage, when Milo Yiannopoulos came to speak at UC Berkeley, as well as starting a huge mob fight with a group of Trump supporters holding a pro free speech rally (free speech is so fascist amirite). On top of this the Mayor of Berkeley, despite this violent behavior and despite the leaders of BAMN saying violent militant action is needed against fascists, is actually part of the BAMN facebook group and is facebook friends with some of the group's leaders. Let me repeat that, the mayor of Berkeley is affiliated with this group that preaches and practices violence against their political adversaries. And one of their leaders Yvette Felarca who has actually physically assaulted people and has on national television called for violence against her political adversaries is, for some reason, allowed to teach children at a public school in Berkeley.
Not to mention one of their goals is to defend affirmative action and have it further instated in national policy, which is an actual existing racist policy within our government. They were a party involved in the supreme court case Grutter v. Bollinger as well as organizing student support at the University of Michigan for the eventual outcome of the Supreme Court decision where the Supreme Court voted 5-4 that it is okay for colleges to discriminate against white people on the basis of race. Not to mention BAMN has organized several college campaigns to oppose legislation seeking to abolish racial admissions policies, and they have actually gotten people to sign petitions before that have shut down this anti-racial admission process legislation. And they have actually received two awards for defending racist policies.
I'm actually left-leaning and think identity politics on both sides is childish disgusting and narcissistic, so you saying "what about the shitty people on the right" does absolutely nothing to sway my position on Antifa because I have no vested interest in defending the right, and because I think white nationalists, the alt-right, and white supremacist groups are ideologically abhorrent on principle and any violence from them is completely ethically inexcusable in the same vein.