Originally posted by Galan007
Thragg >>> Invincible+Omni-Man >> Omni-Man = Supreme. 🙂
Kirkman's Supreme is pretty weak sauce... I just don't feel he is Liefield or Moore Supreme. I know it's supposed to be, sort of... b-but.. I'm not feeling it Galan.
The guys in the Invincible Universe seem, sort of squishy.
^ Kirkman didn't write Supreme's most recent series -- Larsen did.
Regardless, 'mean' Supreme(the version Nolan stalemated) IS Liefeld/Moore Supreme -- they're literally the exact same being. Furthermore, in that very same series, mean Supreme was stated to be THE most powerful version of the character, and proved it by effortlessly stomping a group of villains that not even the combined Supreme Family could contend with beforehand. Then there's his battle with Khromium, which resulted in mean Supreme destroying an entire planet, etc.
*I'd also throw in mean Supreme's casual stompage of Suprema, who has lifted universe-weight, but that's neither here nor there. 😛
That said, it was a fantastic feat for Nolan more than anything, but it IS also canon(as confirmed by Kirkman himself), so it needs to be considered on some level when discussing the Viltrumites. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007Interesting, I haven't read Larsen's supreme, however, nothing in Invincible strikes me on a par with the stuff both Liefield and Moore's Supremes pulled and the Moore and Liefield Supremes being the same? One is a semi-psychotic stone killer with a super soldier origin and the other isn't. I'm not saying you're wrong, just how does that work?
^ Kirkman didn't write Supreme's most recent series -- Larsen did.Regardless, 'mean' Supreme(the version Nolan stalemated) IS Liefeld/Moore Supreme -- they're literally the exact same being. Furthermore, in that very same series, mean Supreme was stated to be THE most powerful version of the character, and proved it by effortlessly stomping a group of villains that not even the combined Supreme Family could contend with beforehand. Then there's his battle with Khromium, which resulted in mean Supreme destroying an entire planet, etc.
*I'd also throw in mean Supreme's casual stompage of Suprema, who has lifted universe-weight, but that's neither here nor there. 😛
That said, it was a fantastic feat for Nolan more than anything, but it IS also canon(as confirmed by Kirkman himself), so it needs to be considered on some level when discussing the Viltrumites. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Kirkman didn't write Supreme's most recent series -- Larsen did.Regardless, 'mean' Supreme(the version Nolan stalemated) IS Liefeld/Moore Supreme -- they're literally the exact same being. Furthermore, in that very same series, mean Supreme was stated to be THE most powerful version of the character, and proved it by effortlessly stomping a group of villains that not even the combined Supreme Family could contend with beforehand. Then there's his battle with Khromium, which resulted in mean Supreme destroying an entire planet, etc.
*I'd also throw in mean Supreme's casual stompage of Suprema, who has lifted universe-weight, but that's neither here nor there. 😛
That said, it was a fantastic feat for Nolan more than anything, but it IS also canon(as confirmed by Kirkman himself), so it needs to be considered on some level when discussing the Viltrumites. /shrug
👆
But also, it's so far above the Viltrumites average showing, that it's ridiculous.
It's like Byrne Superman [who has better feats than anybody in Invincible] stalemating Pre-Crisis Superman.
That's the hard thing about the showing... Characters like Nolan and Grayson so rarely fight any beings outside the Invincible Universe that it is incredibly hard to say what their 'average' is vs. a bonafide Superman analogue, like Supreme. Fighting another Viltrumite obviously is not the same -- but either way, it IS a gargantuan showing for Nolan. Totally agree there. 👆
Having said that, do I think Nolan vs. Supreme should be the end-all-be-all gauge/showing? Of course not(my initial post was facetious if that wasn't already clear.) I just think it does need to be considered on *some* level when the topic of categorizing high-end Viltrumites comes up, simply because it IS canon. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
That's the hard thing about the showing... Characters like Nolan and Grayson so rarely fight any beings outside the Invincible Universe that it is incredibly hard to say what their 'average' is vs. a bonafide Superman analogue, like Supreme. Fighting another Viltrumite obviously is not the same.Having said that, do I think Nolan vs. Supreme should be the end-all-be-all gauge/showing? Of course not(my initial post was facetious if that wasn't already clear.) I just think it does need to be considered on *some* level when the topic of categorizing high-end Viltrumites comes up, simply because it IS canon. 👆
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Interesting, I haven't read Larsen's supreme, however, nothing in Invincible strikes me on a par with the stuff both Liefield and Moore's Supremes pulled and the Moore and Liefield Supremes being the same? One is a semi-psychotic stone killer with a super soldier origin and the other isn't. I'm not saying you're wrong, just how does that work?
Sorry, I just recognized my error.
'Mean' Supreme from Larsen's run IS the psychotic version from Liefeld's original run. THEY are the same.
Moore's Supreme is another version entirely(there were quite a few different Supremes toward the end of the series.) But as I said: it was outright shown/stated that mean Supreme is the most powerful version of the character, period.
Originally posted by Galan007There were some different versions in Moore's also, but it's more than a decade since I looked at it. Probably nearly two. My comic trivia is not what it was. I will check out Larsen's. I think though the feats of Moore's would take some topping he was Golden Age Supes on steroids.
Sorry, I just recognized my error.'Mean' Supreme from Larsen's run IS the psychotic version from Liefeld's original run. THEY are the same.
Moore's Supreme is another version entirely(there were quite a few different Supremes toward the end of the series.) But as I said: it was outright shown/stated that mean Supreme is the most powerful version of the character, period.