Now THAT is how feats and suchlike are supposed to be discussed on boards like this, two people who clearly know what they are talking about having a polite disagreement or two and swapping info, while the rest of us onlookers get to learn a bit in the process.
Nor spiteful tirades of vitriol where the nukes got launched over something ludicrously trivial, like mislabelling a character 'pre' instead of 'post' -crisis, or whatever.
Well done, fellas.
I dig the entire Invincible lineup and have no problem admitting that Thragg is a very powerful character. The problem Im having, and have had for a while (when they pop up in the forums), is that most of the characters from Invinsible, tend to burst, rupture, break, get decapitated, maimed, amputated, etc., very, very often. They suffer much more damage than Marvel or DC counterparts, but do not show any more power than the Marvel/DC equals.
Its hard to get around it. Its like they are a bunch of super-powered jellyfish. Last time I was contaminating this forum, i seem to remember this issue being brought up in similar match-ups.
Ya don't see Thor, Superman or Hulk bursting like bloodblisters every time they get punched by an enemy of equal, or even superior power.
Mind you, i prefer the carnage and desperation of the Invincible books, to b honest. But, due to canon attacks and durability showings, being the foundations of thesr debates, it doesnt work very well in thier favor.
Just my opinion.
^^^i mostly share that opinion.
Its why i found it surprising how many responses implied Mongul would basically be eviscerated.
Its like the Invincible-verse's characters' tendency to rupture eachother was being superimposed on a character thats never shown sign of being that, i dont want to say fragile, but...prone to damage.
Originally posted by Horrificus
I dig the entire Invincible lineup and have no problem admitting that Thragg is a very powerful character. The problem Im having, and have had for a while (when they pop up in the forums), is that most of the characters from Invinsible, tend to burst, rupture, break, get decapitated, maimed, amputated, etc., very, very often. They suffer much more damage than Marvel or DC counterparts, but do not show any more power than the Marvel/DC equals.Its hard to get around it. Its like they are a bunch of super-powered jellyfish. Last time I was contaminating this forum, i seem to remember this issue being brought up in similar match-ups.
Ya don't see Thor, Superman or Hulk bursting like bloodblisters every time they get punched by an enemy of equal, or even superior power.
Mind you, i prefer the carnage and desperation of the Invincible books, to b honest. But, due to canon attacks and durability showings, being the foundations of thesr debates, it doesnt work very well in thier favor.
Just my opinion.
Good opinion as well.
It's perfectly true that the Invincibleverse's population don't seem to go a day without getting at least one limb lopped off in a particularly gruesome way.
The art is incredible though , and once you get used to all the arterial spray and gobbets of flesh then that level of carnage starts to make a strange sort of internal sense within its own fictional universe. I want to say that horrendous ultra-violence is 'normal' there, but I don't want to sound like a serial killer!
But you're right, even though Hulk might spend a huge amount of time beating the shit out of other characters with his giant fists, you don't see them reduced to bleeding stains with their brains hanging out of their eye sockets - which, let's face it, would be a normal day at the office in the Thragg household!
So it is very very hard to make comparisons at all.
And I think 'super-powered jellyfish', if it isn't already an actual thing, needs to become one asap!
Originally posted by wuleecat
Good opinion as well.It's perfectly true that the Invincibleverse's population don't seem to go a day without getting at least one limb lopped off in a particularly gruesome way.
The art is incredible though , and once you get used to all the arterial spray and gobbets of flesh then that level of carnage starts to make a strange sort of internal sense within its own fictional universe. I want to say that horrendous ultra-violence is 'normal' there, but I don't want to sound like a serial killer!
But you're right, even though Hulk might spend a huge amount of time beating the shit out of other characters with his giant fists, you don't see them reduced to bleeding stains with their brains hanging out of their eye sockets - which, let's face it, would be a normal day at the office in the Thragg household!
So it is very very hard to make comparisons at all.
And I think 'super-powered jellyfish', if it isn't already an actual thing, needs to become one asap!
Originally posted by HorrificusThing is: not all Viltrumites are created equal:
I dig the entire Invincible lineup and have no problem admitting that Thragg is a very powerful character. The problem Im having, and have had for a while (when they pop up in the forums), is that most of the characters from Invinsible, tend to burst, rupture, break, get decapitated, maimed, amputated, etc., very, very often. They suffer much more damage than Marvel or DC counterparts, but do not show any more power than the Marvel/DC equals.Its hard to get around it. Its like they are a bunch of super-powered jellyfish. Last time I was contaminating this forum, i seem to remember this issue being brought up in similar match-ups.
Ya don't see Thor, Superman or Hulk bursting like bloodblisters every time they get punched by an enemy of equal, or even superior power.
Mind you, i prefer the carnage and desperation of the Invincible books, to b honest. But, due to canon attacks and durability showings, being the foundations of thesr debates, it doesnt work very well in thier favor.
Just my opinion.
With that in mind, Thragg doesn't "pop like a bloodblister" when struck by Superman-tier beings. For example, a full-on rage melee from Invincible only succeeded in giving Thragg a slight bloody nose... And he wasn't even defending himself:
http://i.imgur.com/jEXAeS7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wJlmOav.jpg
Same result from Omni-Man:
http://i.imgur.com/pAESWSr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rV9MNMg.jpg
Moreover, Thragg was completely unfazed by the detonation of Viltrum. Granted most of the noteworthy Viltrumites survived the explosion as well, but Thragg was the only one who tanked it outright:
http://i.imgur.com/WEUB27m.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XQIoMZv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BtYX1P2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KEcEddE.jpg
On another note... To my knowledge, the only things that have dealt noteworthy damage to Thragg are the Ragnars, which were specifically bred to kill Viltrumites, and stated to be "indestructible" by Nolan himself:
http://i.imgur.com/rdrHg5X.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/n8IsLPg.jpg
As of the most recent issue of Invincible, however, Thragg keeps two of them as PETS, lol:
http://i.imgur.com/Gr3oUfy.jpg
Battle Beast also dealt Thragg damage during their fight(obviously), but that literally made no sense at all in accordance with BB's history -- especially given that Thragg had one-shotted him earlier in the series, lol. Kirkman has a tendency to wank characters that are about to die(he's said as much in the letters section.) /shrug
Regardless, don't let the gore-tastic nature of Invincible fool you -- Thragg is still ridiculously durable. However, as we saw in his fight with BB: even IF Thragg does sustain a grotesque injury, it has NO discernible effect on his battle performance -- he can still fight at full capacity for DAYS on end. 👆
Regardless, don't let the gore-tastic nature of Invincible fool you -- Thragg is still ridiculously durable. However, as we saw in his fight with BB: even IF Thragg does sustain a grotesque injury, it has NO discernible effect on his battle performance -- he can still fight at full capacity for DAYS on end. thumb up
The reason Invincible-verse characters seem so fragile is that it's Kirkman. He simply loves blood and gore. The carnage the Invincible characters do to each other is no different than in Walking Dead. Only difference is power scale.
Also, DC/Marvel simply aren't as violent as they are massive companies targeted at adults and children alike. Kirkman makes his own stuff, so he can do whatever he wants without fear of corporate censorship. Even Marvel MAX is nowhere near as violent as a tame fight in Invincible.
Thragg has been damaged again and again. He has even been disembowled. And, yes, he has fought on.
But, there is no way to quantify the threat posed by the Ragnar. The hype given to them, is no more than the hype that the Mindless Ones used to get in the Marvel universe. And look where they r now.
The problem still remains that he, by comic book standards, is easily damaged by heavy hitters. And this level of damage is not seen as casually in marvel or dc.
And, even though Thragg fought on while disembowled, the fact that he can be damaged so easily, opens the door for scenarios like "dismemberment". Thragg can not continue fighting if he loses too many limbs.
So, we know that the Invincible universe is going to depict it's characters as being far easier to damage than in marvel or dc. Which, in my opinion, is a "plus" and adds to the stories.
But, on paper, in a debate, this will ALWAYS work against them, when going up against a marve/dc heavy hitter. Because, the fact is that we can show far more instances of Thor/Supes going up against enemies equal to, or far above Thragg in power, without sustaining damage anywhere near the damage Thragg and others sustain on a regular basis in the Invincible universe.
So, really, what r we supposed to do, ignore the durability aspect? Because thats the only way Thragg and the rest r going to get an equal chance in these debates.
Personally, Id b fine if they were kept separate, the way Dragon Ball characters are. And I hope the Invibcible stories and character aspects never change.
Wow, it's obvious that you are just going to ignore every shred of evidence I post to the contrary, and fill the gaps with your own preconceived notions. srsly
Fact is: Thragg can, and has, soaked attacks from 'heavy hitters' just fine. He's also endured a planetary explosion just fine. In fact, here is yet another instance of Thragg tanking a full-on rage punch from Invincible, without so much as a scratch to show for it:
https://s21.postimg.org/rakdzd61z/3_1.jpg
https://s21.postimg.org/7g3eacx5z/3_2.jpg
As I thoroughly explained above: the only instances where Thragg HAS been significantly injured were very, very situational/circumstantial... But hey, apparently his durability is shit cuz *you* said so. 👆
I also think it's funny that you're now trying to downplay the Ragnars like they're fodder, simply because Thragg was able to 'dual wield' them in the most recent issue. They are still extremely powerful/credible threats that make the likes of Omni-Man shit his pants in fear, and give even Thragg himself pause... If anything, Thragg restraining them on his own is a very uber feat for him -- certainly not a poor showing for the Ragnars. none
More evidence that high-end Viltrumites do not "pop like bloodblisters" against your more mainstream 'heavy hitters'(ie. Superman analogues)..? Omni-Man vs. Supreme:
https://s24.postimg.org/x61bs8kpx/001.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/9ud8356g5/002.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/ccyx3ts6d/003.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/3kmjtvwf9/004.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/6h9ku6291/005.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/lm13dy12d/006.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/sy6jjhjad/007.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/jwwljmaqt/008.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/v2vhybaat/009.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/uz1oi24th/010.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/w2lsu0pgl/011.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/5it7rvox1/012.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/c2dkry9rv/013.jpg
...Though I'm sure you'll just downplay/ignore that as well(despite its canonicity), so I'm not sure why I even wasted my time posting it. ermm
Thragg has been damaged again and again. He has even been disembowled. And, yes, he has fought on.
...The problem still remains that he, by comic book standards, is easily damaged by heavy hitters. And this level of damage is not seen as casually in marvel or dc.
Probably not phrasing that quite right, need coffee.
Originally posted by Galan007
Wow, it's obvious that you are just going to ignore every shred of evidence I post to the contrary, and fill the gaps with your own preconceived notions. srslyFact is: Thragg can, and has, soaked attacks from 'heavy hitters' just fine. He's also endured a planetary explosion just fine. In fact, here is yet another instance of Thragg tanking a full-on rage punch from Invincible, without so much as a scratch to show for it:
https://s21.postimg.org/rakdzd61z/3_1.jpg
https://s21.postimg.org/7g3eacx5z/3_2.jpg
As I thoroughly explained above: the only instances where Thragg HAS been significantly injured were very, very situational/circumstantial... But hey, apparently his durability is shit cuz *you* said so. 👆I also think it's funny that you're now trying to downplay the Ragnars like they're fodder, simply because Thragg was able to 'dual wield' them in the most recent issue. They are still extremely powerful/credible threats that make the likes of Omni-Man shit his pants in fear, and give even Thragg himself pause... If anything, Thragg restraining them on his own is a very uber feat for him -- certainly not a poor showing for the Ragnars. none
More evidence that high-end Viltrumites do not "pop like bloodblisters" against your more mainstream 'heavy hitters'(ie. Superman analogues)..? Omni-Man vs. Supreme:
https://s24.postimg.org/x61bs8kpx/001.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/9ud8356g5/002.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/ccyx3ts6d/003.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/3kmjtvwf9/004.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/6h9ku6291/005.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/lm13dy12d/006.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/sy6jjhjad/007.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/jwwljmaqt/008.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/v2vhybaat/009.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/uz1oi24th/010.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/w2lsu0pgl/011.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/5it7rvox1/012.jpg
https://s15.postimg.org/c2dkry9rv/013.jpg
...Though I'm sure you'll just downplay/ignore that as well(despite its canonicity), so I'm not sure why I even wasted my time posting it. ermm
I'm not ignoring anything. Im simply not as impressed by your opinion as u would like. But, your posts r appreciated.
I read the same books, over and over. Im a fan, as i have said. Im not downplaying the Ragnars or any of the characters. Im simply doing the math. There is a much greater rate of damage in the Invincible universe, than in the others.
Take the number of appearances Thragg has made, the number of times he has battled opponents who r weaker than he is, (basically all of them), and then the number of times he has been bloodied. You can even factor in times where he was NOT bloodied in damaging situations.
Do the same for Supes, Thor, or any number of similar characters and Thragg will b on the losing end of the slide rule, for the majority.
They have had too many appearances and battles with too many heavy hitters, with too LITTLE damage, for Thragg to b the instant trump card" u want him to b.
Its simply "numbers". Unless u r able to prove that the enemies and attacks that caused damage to Thragg, or characters he has fought, r more powerful than those faced by Thor, Gladiator, Supes, etc., in all of thier battles, backing Thragg is going to b difficult. For now.
Too much would need to b attributed to Invincible universe characters and feats, without proper comparison to marvel/dc characters and feats. Its too much of a leap of faith.
For me, anyway. Its just my opinion.
Originally posted by HorrificusYes, that's exactly what you're doing.
I'm not ignoring anything.
You initially stated Thragg and the high-end Viltrumites have a tendency to "pop like bloodblisters" against heavy hitters. I showed you a plethora of evidence to the contrary -- literally posted multiple instances of Thragg, and other high-end Viltrumites, tanking attacks from heavy hitters(and even planetary explosions) just fine. You completely ignored said evidence, and moreover, actually tried to baselessly downplay some of it.
I can see now this 'debate' will go nowhere. You have your mind made up on Thragg's durability, and no amount of evidence I post will change it. No offense, but there's just no reason to continue wasting my time. 🙂
Originally posted by deathslashExactly. Thragg wasn't even trying to defend himself there, and all of those Viltrumites were roughly on par with Omni-Man/Invincible. 👆
five viltrumites that were all more or less on the level of omni-man that weren't holding back while he was trying to talk to them.
Unfortunately, context doesn't seem to matter a whole lot here... ermm
Originally posted by Galan007Keep in mind, this is Abhi. He feels that the manhood of Superman is threatened every time that there's a super strong alien that can beat up planet busters.Exactly. Thragg wasn't even trying to defend himself there, and all of those Viltrumites were roughly on par with Omni-Man/Invincible. 👆
Unfortunately, context doesn't seem to matter a whole lot here... ermm
Originally posted by deathslash
five viltrumites that were all more or less on the level of omni-man that weren't holding back while he was trying to talk to them.
Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, that's exactly what you're doing.You initially stated Thragg and the high-end Viltrumites have a tendency to "pop like bloodblisters" against heavy hitters. I showed you a plethora of evidence to the contrary -- literally posted multiple instances of Thragg, and other high-end Viltrumites, tanking attacks from heavy hitters(and even planetary explosions) just fine. You completely ignored said evidence, and moreover, actually tried to baselessly downplay some of it.
I can see now this 'debate' will go nowhere. You have your mind made up on Thragg's durability, and no amount of evidence I post will change it. No offense, but there's just no reason to continue wasting my time. 🙂
Exactly. Thragg wasn't even trying to defend himself there, and all of those Viltrumites were roughly on par with Omni-Man/Invincible. 👆
Unfortunately, context doesn't seem to matter a whole lot here... ermm
Originally posted by deathslash
Keep in mind, this is Abhi. He feels that the manhood of Superman is threatened every time that there's a super strong alien that can beat up planet busters.
I'm not sure where this came from but all I said was four Vilturmites beat the shit out of him.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Xs6AIpHX5io/U0i3bzb0tpI/AAAAAAACV_o/QTZOAM3Hr8U/s1600/p102_12.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sBosKsfVX5M/U0i3cOlZXJI/AAAAAAACV_s/uQ1JMTs3hlk/s1600/p102_13.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XOnDKD_sxJs/U0i3ct6y5CI/AAAAAAACV_4/Po6-Vgc3jgU/s1600/p102_14.jpg
Lulz @ him trying to talk to them though.
