Originally posted by Ursumeles
Lol @this discussions.Islamophobic =/= racists.
Islam = Religion.
Muslims =/= race.Christ. Or is saying Christ islamophobic?
But wait no you have to get the logic going on here to truly grasp the beauty of it. The logic is I am racist, but I talk about Muslims and use them as a sort of racist loophole because it's not a race.
Now that I've explained it I am sure it makes total sense.
But wait no you have to get the logic going on here to truly grasp the beauty of it. The logic is I am racist, but I talk about Muslims and use them as a sort of racist loophole because it's not a race.
@Beni Tbh, you can say that Islam (or any religion for that matter) is a political idealogy, tho I wouldn't say it like that.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
THERE IS NO LOGIC.
THAT DOESN'T MAKES ANY SENSE.@Beni Tbh, you can say that Islam (or any religion for that matter) is a political idealogy, tho I wouldn't say it like that.
How can you even imply it doesn't make sense? Next you'll tell me a person putting forth that logic just isn't very bright.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
You can argue Surtur's contempt for Islam extends to the point of unfairly painting them all with the same brush or to the point of irrationality, however it's extremely obvious that it is a contempt for Islamic ideology and culture, not a contempt for brown skin.If you want you can make the argument that his contempt for Islam extends too far or too unfairly, however suggesting that he's a racist is completely unsubstantiated.
His contempt for Islam/Muslims definitely does extend too far and too unfairly, and I think it's pretty clear that extends from his "Pro-American, Pro-White" and "Anti-coloured people and their cultures" ideology.
Islam as Relgion is really not very different to Christianity and Judaism. More progressive for for it's time in fact (in terms of things like racial equality).
However out of those 3 faiths Surtur has a problem specifically with Islam which has very few white followers and is predominantly full of Arabs, Asians and some Africans. He also wants an enemy not closely related to America. And he's made many comments in the past which show he's not the biggest fan of black people.
Just look at this female circumcision thing he's harping on about, blaming Muslims and Islam for. He knows very well it's predominantly a Somalian issue. Yet he's getting around the race card by naming it an Islamic issue.
Oh and btw I don't think it's a coincidence that most the pro-White racist groups are also the biggest Muslim haters. So there definitely is a direct correlation there IMHO.
Yeah, attacks on Islam are not attacks on a race. End of discussion. This is coming form a genuine racist. Islam generally hasn't modernised like christianity has, for the most part. Ironically the worst and most medieval practices of Christianity today come form places like Uganda and other African countries. Surt however, concentrates on Islam for two reasons.
1) Most of the terrosim in west comes from Islamic fundamentalists currently, especially as they still make up a small minority
2) Islam at it's core is more morally objectionable than christianity comparative to western values.
You can make it a Race issue if you want. I for example, don't think it's any coincidence that the ancestral religion of of the white man is leagues more tolerant than the predominant religion of the brown man. And yes, on that metric, christiany is >>>>>> Islam. Thor, If you think Islam is not an idea and just reflection of Arabs, Asians and Africans than any rascim towards them is perfectly justified.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
His contempt for Islam/Muslims definitely does extend too far and too unfairly, and I think it's pretty clear that extends from his "Pro-American, Pro-White" and "Anti-coloured people and their cultures" ideology.
I'm opposed to the extent of Surtur's stances, but it's obvious that his criticisms are of ideology and culture as opposed to attempting to make a point about the racial superiority of white people.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Islam as Relgion is really not very different to Christianity and Judaism. More progressive for for it's time in fact (in terms of things like racial equality).However out of those 3 faiths Surtur has a problem specifically with Islam which has very few white followers and is predominantly full of Arabs, Asians and some Africans. He also wants an enemy not closely related to America. And he's made many comments in the past which show he's not the biggest fan of black people.
Just look at this female circumcision thing he's harping on about, blaming Muslims and Islam for. He knows very well it's predominantly a Somalian issue. Yet he's getting around the race card by naming it an Islamic issue.
He does place a special emphasis on Islam, however I think that's due to the modern prevalence of Islamic terrorism when compared to Judaism, Christianity, or any other religion, as well as the humans rights abuses that take place in the middle east, and the negative impact the migrant crisis has had on Europe. It's very obvious from Surtur's posting history that he gives way more of a shit about those things than about whether or not the people doing them were brown or white.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh and btw I don't think it's a coincidence that most the pro-White racist groups are also the biggest Muslim haters. So there definitely is a direct correlation there IMHO.
Someone could hate Muslims without racializing culture at all though, they could say Western Culture is the greatest culture in the world and not have a problem with a racial minority within Western Culture, yet still perceive Islam to be bad on the basis of an ideological opposition to western culture and on the basis of how Islamic ideology motivates most of the terrorist attacks in the modern world. It would be possible for someone to loathe Islam to the horrific extent of wanting all Muslims to be executed for their beliefs and not give a shit about anyone's skin color.
The white supremacist perspective almost always leads to an anti-Islamic perspective, however an anti-Islamic perspective can very easily exist without any racial motivations whatsoever. Just because one group tends to hold a certain point of view doesn't mean that you can implicate someone with a similar point of view as holding that group's ideology.
You know who would be absolutely disgusted by white people oppressing black people? Black supremacists, and the reasoning why black supremacists would extremely passionately hate white people oppressing black people is very obvious, however you can very easily hold the point of view that oppressing black people is wrong without being a black supremacist.
Surtur has a very clear contempt for Islamic ideology and culture, for which he cites human rights abuses and terrorism, and clearly holds western civilization in high regard (for a very good reason). I have never seen Surtur make any attempt to racialize the cultural difference between western nations and middle eastern nations, and everything I've seen suggests his contempt for Islam is based upon an ideological premise rather than a racial one even if you want to argue his premise or reasoning is flawed.
Simply put, Surtur doesn't make any attempt to bring race into discussions about Islam, his objections to Islam are ones that can very easily exist without any sort of racial bias, and the only thing to substantiate your claim that he's just a sneaky racist is the fact that white supremacists hate Islam and that Islam is made-up of predominantly brown people. Which is to say you have no evidence, because holding a similar stance to a group doesn't mean you have the same ideology as a group, and just because a culture or ideology is comprised of a specific demographic doesn't mean you can't criticize that group without hating that demographic.
For all I know Surtur could be a raging white supremacist with KKK robes, a hanging tree, and paintings of brutally murdered black people hanging on a wall, but until there's any actual evidence suggesting his contempt for Islam is in any way racially motivated, then accusations that he's just a racist have no place in this discussion.
Very well done DMB.
Unfortunately, Thor has found himself in a sticky dilemma. By claiming criticism of Islam is an attack on brown people, he has directly associated the religion with said race. Meaning that the worst atrocities committed in the name of Islam are now a racial problem as oppose to one regarding cultures and ideas.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
His contempt for Islam/Muslims definitely does extend too far and too unfairly, and I think it's pretty clear that extends from his "Pro-American, Pro-White" and "Anti-coloured people and their cultures" ideology.
Lol nope. I've never said I was pro white or anti-colored.
Islam as Relgion is really not very different to Christianity and Judaism. More progressive for for it's time in fact (in terms of things like racial equality).
Stop peddling this BS. It's the lazy argument people always make. Nobody says Islam is the only religion that contains horrifying things. The difference is that in the current age we live in whenever we have terror attacks motivated by religion that religion is usually Islam.
However out of those 3 faiths Surtur has a problem specifically with Islam which has very few white followers and is predominantly full of Arabs, Asians and some Africans. He also wants an enemy not closely related to America. And he's made many comments in the past which show he's not the biggest fan of black people.
So either you're lying or just ignorant. I've spoken plenty about Christians in the religion forum. It's just that they currently aren't the ones doing a majority of terror attacks. It's sad that you have to try to make this about race when this isn't about their race, but their beliefs.
As for black people, I've spoken at length about the high crime rate in these communities in the past. That is my issue. We see them hoot and holler more over a cop shooting someone than all the unsolved black on black crimes. I know these facts are unpleasant, but I'm not going to shield you from the truth because it hurts your feelings. 105 shootings in Chicago over the weekend, 15 deaths. Yeah, I have a big f*cking problem with that.
Just look at this female circumcision thing he's harping on about, blaming Muslims and Islam for. He knows very well it's predominantly a Somalian issue. Yet he's getting around the race card by naming it an Islamic issue.
You also know very where most Somalians follow Islam. Every single time a topic even slightly critical about Islam goes up or a topic where followers of Islam did something wrong you have to charge in there to try to suggest it's "racist" to talk about these things. You do not do this for topics about Christians doing things though.
Oh and btw I don't think it's a coincidence that most the pro-White racist groups are also the biggest Muslim haters. So there definitely is a direct correlation there IMHO.
Just call it what it is: White supremacists. That is more or less what you mean by "Pro White". White supremacists tend to not like any group that isn't white.