Valkorion vs Count Dooku and Mace Windu

Originally posted by Azronger
They are only cancerous because you deem it so. Have you seen any reasoning behind them? No? Well, why exactly are they cancerous, then? Because they disagree with your opinions? Yeah, that seems to be about it. The classic appeal to personal incredulity: "I can't possibly see how that could be true so it must be false." or as you deem it, "idiotic."

It's quite ironic how you deem others idiots, yet manage to come out with some of the most putrid and leukemia-inducing arguments that fly in the face of all logic in the history of debating - case in point being you calling us idiots, a declaration based on a logical fallacy, and thus being illogical in and of itself. You're reminding me more and more of Member [b]S_W_LeGenD every time you post: arrogant and condescending as hell, while at the same time too stupid to understand that his arguments are retarded and make no sense, and viewed by virtually everyone here as a total moron yet thinks of himself as the King of debating and most other people as his inferiors; too stupid to get a clue.

If you are so eager to prove you are worth your salt, then go ahead. I'll gladly anally violate you so hard in a debate that there'll be nothing but blood coming out of you for the next two months. It'll be just you and me, no outside intervention, classic 1v1, just as you want. Come on, if I'm such an idiot, then surely you can easily beat me, right? [/B]

As for my arguments, they only fly in the face of what YOU deem logical. Perhaps you, or others here, remember someone by the name Darth Pariahus, he's a good friend of mine, and is one of the most logical people I know, and honestly, his opinions of KMC are pretty much the same as mine.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Since no iteration of Revan is equal to Sidious or Yoda, that's not possible.

For some time, your intermittent posts have seemed almost entirely dedicated to the wank of Valkorion and SWTOR. I've long found it perplexing, for not only are Valkorion and SWTOR bad things in general, but Sheev stands conclusively superior to them by way of evidence.

I simply decided to take my talents to the losing side. Lord knows they need the help.

I'm the anti-KD, sorta speak.

Explain yourself, my son, and return to the comfort of His Imperial Majesty's embrace.

Valk's intrinsic and "supreme" potential + the strength of two planets and thousands of Sith Lords and thousands of years + near limitless knowledge to pull from, to hone, and maximize said power. to it's fullest extent.

I don't agree with it, or necessarily make that argument , as I place Valk at 3, but logically - at least from where I sit - a case could be made using the aforementioned as a base.

So people finally come arpund to the truth, both sides are riddled with people who want to genuinely argue moronic stances with no standing in feats.

More at 11.

The sad thing is that genuinely intellectual people on both sides actually entertain this bullshit. I'm guilty of this.

Do I think Prime Revan is approaching Yoda? Absolutely, why? Because first of all, his novel incarnations were far from his prime so that's irrelevant when discussing his far more powerful incarnation.

I have Arcann and Malgus in very high regard, equal to some of the lesser Vader incarnations, why? Because they have absolutely insane durability feats which Vader would be proud of, ignoring the cross-era references.

I have DE Palpatine and Valkorion on roughly the same tier, with Darth Nihilus beneath them. Why? Because they each have insane planetary feats.

Do I have Exar Kun approaching RotS Sidious? Yes, indeed I do. Why? Because that's literally been the point of his character since its inception. I even remember the very old interviews where Exar Kun was supposed to be a new type of Sith, unlike Vader or the Emperor.

People like to throw out their own common sense and trash anything that doesn't support their own agenda, the ancient Sith are pparently sub-Dooku tier shit now. Which makes absolutely no aense when actually considering the lore. Which is the most insane part of all of this, if we don't like the lore they're a part of, we decide to troll and trash everything to do with that era.

It started with Bane era and now it's everywhere that isn't remotely somehow connected to the movie era.

If you manage to not get stomped by Vader, now you're top 10 worthy. But that only goes for Vader, try and apply the same scaling to a TOR character and all of a sudden everybody's featless and a laughingstock.

This is all bullshit, literally breaking forum rules with status quo'ing and nobody cares to do anything about it.

You wonder why I argue against this? Because it killed the forum.

Originally posted by AncientPower
literally breaking forum rules

To be fair, that one's kind of irrelevant at this point.

Originally posted by AncientPower
If you manage to not get stomped by Vader, now you're top 10 worthy. But that only goes for Vader, try and apply the same scaling to a TOR character and all of a sudden everybody's featless and a laughingstock.

Not true at all. For first, not every Era in universe has a top fighter on Sidious/Yoda's level. TOR's is a lucky one, that it has. Sidious at the time of ROTS is stated to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history. That doesn't mean, that Plagueis or Vitiate can't be on his tier - they are.
And just as Vitiate is in Sidious/Yoda's tier, his inferior, Revan, is in their inferiors tier. Which puts Revan in Vader (overated as hell)/Anakin, Mace, Dooku's tier.
Then we have guys like Malgus, Kenobi, Maul, and others. If Malgus is tier below Revan and tier below Baras, it puts Baras to Fisto's group.

Just my opinion and I guess i wont change that.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I actually don't consider you an idiot. Within the past couple weeks, I've gained a bit more respect for you.

I've done little to no debating in the past couple of weeks... So makes sense.

Originally posted by darthbane77
As for my arguments, they only fly in the face of what YOU deem logical. Perhaps you, or others here, remember someone by the name Darth Pariahus, he's a good friend of mine, and is one of the most logical people I know, and honestly, his opinions of KMC are pretty much the same as mine.

'k. Don't really care about your friend agreeing with you, but it makes sense that if he shares your interpretation of events, just perhaps in a more articulated fashion, that you'd consider him one of the most logical people.

Unfortunately, it doesn't always work with "oh, up to interpretation"; There's some things you cannot interpret differently or deny since they are indeed fact. Someone who believes the Earth is flat or gravity doesn't exist has a right to his own intepretation, but that doesn't mean they're in the right when scientific facts and a plethora of evidence is against them.

The same goes for fictional universes. Obviously Spider-Man can never beat Thor, Catwoman can never beat Martian Manhunter and by the same token Revan can never beat Sidious. There's some form of established hierarchy that every franchise has.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Not you specifically, but I HAVE seen that opinion shared. The Dooku>Valk thing I mean. But no, I've never argued (not that I remember) that Revan was above ROTS Sidious, but to say they're equals in entirely supportable.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Considering I can and have argued successfully for SoR Revan=Yoda/ROTS Sidious, I think your stance on that is laughably wrong.

Anyway, yes, I agree that Valk >> Dooku, and I can see an argument that Valk > Yoda in the Force (not in power, but due to his more esoteric abilities). And also, I agree that some TOR lowballing is ridiculous. But so is some TOR wank - Thanaton ~ Dooku, Revan ~ Sidious? C'mon.

Anyway, for this match, I think Valk wins, but it isn't a stomp.

Jesus Christ, Azronger.... I looked at your profile and I swear I stepped in fanboy:

Revenge of the Sith Darth Sidious is more powerful than The Phantom Menace Darths Sidious and Plagueis combined

Darth Sidious can defeat an infinite army of Darth Vaders by himself

The Ultimate Palpatine Essay

This reads as well as something Goebbels would write about Hitler during the early days of WWII.

LMAO

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Spoiler:
You are now on SpaceBattles, I've heard?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Jesus Christ, Azronger.... I looked at your profile and I swear I stepped in fanboy:

[b]Revenge of the Sith Darth Sidious is more powerful than The Phantom Menace Darths Sidious and Plagueis combined

Darth Sidious can defeat an infinite army of Darth Vaders by himself

The Ultimate Palpatine Essay

This reads as well as something Goebbels would write about Hitler during the early days of WWII. [/B]

Lol. Define fanboy.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
LMAO

Wait, u alive?

Spoiler:
You are now on SpaceBattles, I've heard?

Indeed.

And yeah, but I hardly ever do SW Versus debating these days.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Yes, you said that. I can search the quote, if you don't believe me.
Considering you were stomped in every Yoda/Sidious vs Revan debate, no, it wasn't succesful.

Anyway, yes, I agree that Valk >> Dooku, and I can see an argument that Valk > Yoda in the Force (not in power, but due to his more esoteric abilities). And also, I agree that some TOR lowballing is ridiculous. But so is some TOR wank - Thanaton ~ Dooku, Revan ~ Sidious? C'mon.

Anyway, for this match, I think Valk wins, but it isn't a stomp.

Originally posted by Azronger
Lol. Define fanboy.

Someone who argues without pause in favor of their favorite character and completely oblivious to their own bias.

Here, I made you a list:

The Commandments of Fanboyism.

I. Thou shalt not adhere to logic if and when it impedes the progress of your biased argument.

II. Thou shalt insult the opposition as a diversionary tactic when thy arguments are proven horribly false.

III. Thou shalt not admit under any circumstances that thou art lost concerning thy argument.

IV. Thou shalt use hyperbole liberally throughout thy argument.

V. Thou shalt not reply directly to any well-formulated rebuttals or questions.

VI. Thou shalt always retreat back to an earlier defeated point when thy latest point runs aground.

VII. Thou shalt not respect the equally valid sources of thy opposition and should seek to destroy their credibility with extreme prejudice.

VIII. Thou shalt play the victim when thy argument is being destroyed and thy own personal ignorance coming under fire.

IX. Thou shalt exclusively debate topics which deal with thy most favorite, unreproachable characters.

X. Thou art infallible in so much as thou crusade against the opposition with all the lowly weapons of thy craft.

Amen.

(PS: I lied. I made this for Gideon a long time ago.)

Holy hell does that take me back.

Originally posted by darthbane77
If I ever argued that any version of Revan was >ROTS Sidious, that was a mistake, and is one I don't make anymore. Also, I've only ever been "stomped" here, because I know I won't be taken seriously. And I have actually performed well here, SunRazer and I actually had a very good debate a while back. But there's no point in me trying to defend my stances because they'll be laughed off anyway.

What? At least other TOR-brigade members take you seriously, it seems. And no, you were stomped because Revan >/~ Yoda is retarded.

I don't remember a good debate between the two of you. But considering that Nova is an extremely good debater, it isn't that bad.

Considering that you laugh of stances like Anakin > Revan and Plagueis > Valkorion, it is the same for us, actually.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Someone who argues without pause in favor of their favorite character and completely oblivious to their own bias.

Here, I made you a list:

The Commandments of Fanboyism.

I. Thou shalt not adhere to logic if and when it impedes the progress of your biased argument.

II. Thou shalt insult the opposition as a diversionary tactic when thy arguments are proven horribly false.

III. Thou shalt not admit under any circumstances that thou art lost concerning thy argument.

IV. Thou shalt use hyperbole liberally throughout thy argument.

V. Thou shalt not reply directly to any well-formulated rebuttals or questions.

VI. Thou shalt always retreat back to an earlier defeated point when thy latest point runs aground.

VII. Thou shalt not respect the equally valid sources of thy opposition and should seek to destroy their credibility with extreme prejudice.

VIII. Thou shalt play the victim when thy argument is being destroyed and thy own personal ignorance coming under fire.

IX. Thou shalt exclusively debate topics which deal with thy most favorite, unreproachable characters.

X. Thou art infallible in so much as thou crusade against the opposition with all the lowly weapons of thy craft.

Amen.

(PS: I lied. I made this for Gideon a long time ago.)

Does the fact that this list pertains to you at least as much as Azr give you any pause before posting it?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Someone who argues without pause in favor of their favorite character and completely oblivious to their own bias.

Here, I made you a list:

The Commandments of Fanboyism.

I. Thou shalt not adhere to logic if and when it impedes the progress of your biased argument.

II. Thou shalt insult the opposition as a diversionary tactic when thy arguments are proven horribly false.

III. Thou shalt not admit under any circumstances that thou art lost concerning thy argument.

IV. Thou shalt use hyperbole liberally throughout thy argument.

V. Thou shalt not reply directly to any well-formulated rebuttals or questions.

VI. Thou shalt always retreat back to an earlier defeated point when thy latest point runs aground.

VII. Thou shalt not respect the equally valid sources of thy opposition and should seek to destroy their credibility with extreme prejudice.

VIII. Thou shalt play the victim when thy argument is being destroyed and thy own personal ignorance coming under fire.

IX. Thou shalt exclusively debate topics which deal with thy most favorite, unreproachable characters.

X. Thou art infallible in so much as thou crusade against the opposition with all the lowly weapons of thy craft.

Amen.

(PS: I lied. I made this for Gideon a long time ago.)

Good. I am not a fanboy 🙂

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Good.

What? At least other TOR-brigade members take you seriously, it seems. And no, you were stomped because Revan >/~ Yoda is retarded.

I don't remember a good debate between the two of you. But considering that Nova is an extremely good debater, it isn't that bad.

Considering that you laugh of stances like Anakin > Revan and Plagueis > Valkorion, it is the same for us, actually.

Maybe, but not that I notice. Maybe I just don't pay enough attention to detail. But no, the idea of Revan being around Yoda's level isn't retarded. I don't actually hold them equal btw, I DO hold Yoda above Reborn Revan, the difference is simply a small one.

I wouldn't expect you to, it was probably approaching a year ago now honestly, the only people who MIGHT remember it, are Ant and Syndi. I think I saved pics, I think, but I'm not positive. Even Nova said I didn't do half bad. But I suppose saying it is useless without the pics to prove it, so it's irrelevant I guess.

Plagueis>Valkorion I can understand to a degree, depending on how you interpret certain things (blurbs for example), so while I strongly disagree with the Plagueis>Valkorion/Vitiate narrative, I admit it has at least a decent basis. As for Anakin>Revan, that's a stance I don't believe has any basis whatsoever. If I've ever been disrespectful to any (with the exceptions of Rocky and Quan), than I'm sorry.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Does the fact that this list pertains to you at least as much as Azr give you any pause before posting it?

It doesn't, because my stances have largely changed with time and with evidence. Hell, before I came to KMC I didn't give a rat's ass about ancient Sith, and I knew Exar Kun as KotOR body armor description better than I knew his actual storyline.

Meanwhile, you've conceded once to me in about 12 years and backtracked on it the next week. This was after I took screenshots of the Yoda v. Sidious fight and in painstaking detail pointed out that Sidious was dominated in the fight and that he conclusively lost the Force battle.