Well, I'd need to look at the circumstances of the ragdolling. Anyway, I'd say ragdolling Obi-Wan, and the Dreadnought showing, as well as scaling from the likes of Yaddle and Yarael, at least comes close to Arcann's showings.
That being said, as Dooku as of TPM was already -bar Mace and Yoda- the most skilled Jedi in history, and later destroying Ventress, as well as beating Obi-Wan and GG, I'd put him above Arcann in the dueling department, which could be a more decisive advandtadge than Arcann's possible Force Advandtadge.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
I'd put him above Arcann in the dueling department, which could be a more decisive advandtadge than Arcann's possible Force Advandtadge.
Originally posted by TenebrousWayHe was a better duelist than SoR/KOTFE HoT, and ragdolled him. If you don't know comprehend why that's impressive, I'll sum up why HoT is impressive in the first place:
I've never been that impressed by Arcann, to be honest.
So, at the very start of his career as a Jedi, HoT impresses Orgus Din so much that he declares that the Force is stronger in HoT than he has seen in decades. Orgus was in the Sacking of Coruscant around 10 years before he makes that comment. So, this means that Hero was more powerful than all the Force users a Jedi Master (who has most likely seen all the relevant Jedi) has encountered, which includes the likes of Ven Zallow, and potentially Deceived Malgus. Bengal Morr’s comments support this as well. Keep in mind that this is the very beginning of his career. So early that he doesn’t even have a lightsaber yet. With a saber, Act I Hero was capable of killing The Sand Demon, a beast that feeds on Krayt Dragons. By the time he reaches the end of Act I, he is praised to be the most powerful Jedi from the GM herself. Satele Shan calls him a “Jedi without equal” and “our greatest weapon against the darkness”.
He grows more and more powerful throughout Acts II and III. At the end of Act II, he is more or less equal to Lord Scourge. However, in act III, he is so far above anyone else in the order that the Jedi don’t even consider sending in other Jedi (which includes names like Barsen’thor) or Scourge himself with him to face the Emperor, as they would be TP’ed instantly. This comparison to Scourge means that the Hero has grown significantly more powerful throughout Act III, margining the already established gap between him and the rest of the Jedi in the order.
He fights through DKaas and Emperor’s elite, on a dark side nexus, before he faces the weakened Emperor himself. Even though he was already weakened, the Emperor, after being struck down (which is an event that harmed his power and spirit critically) was able to bring down a huge portion of the Dark Temple. This means that his power while facing the Hero is even greater.
In Sor, he becomes a battlemaster. This means that he mastered all lightsaber forms. Now, we know that he is significantly more powerful than most of his era. So he gets great Force amp. Add in the fact that he is tailored in melee and specializes on duels, and knows every form, we know for a fact that he is an incredible duelist. This is important, because he doesn’t have the exposure that characters like Kenobi has.
Such hype and success within his early 20s is truly exceptional, almost shocking. However, this actually aligns with the lore quite well, since Scourge foresees HoT's arrival as a prophecy, 300 years before his birth.
Arcann ragdolled this guy and was the better duelist throughout their fight.
I can see Dooku taking Kotet HoTlander, but not the guy who ragdolled him.
As for the circumstances for the ragdoll; it involves Arcann, HoTlander, and the Force. 🙂
So, this means that Hero was more powerful than all the Force users a Jedi Master (who has most likely seen all the relevant Jedi) has encountered, which includes the likes of Ven Zallow, and potentially Deceived Malgus.
Unlikely. Deceived Malgus defeated Zallow rather quickly and decisively plus his force signature alone distorted the signature of Zallow plus the dozen Jedi knights that escorted the Jedi Master to meet Malgus. Aryn Leener upon watching the fight in Deceived notes that Malgus completely controlled the fight.
Also, considering Act III HoT needed help to defeat Malgus in the end game, it's pretty difficult to imagine that Act I HoT is more powerful than Deceived Malgus, who by his part, is far above his Return incarnation, who's factually one of the best warriors of the Empire already.
KotET Outlander is factually above Arcann as he managed to tank Vailyn Maelstrom while Arcann was immediately ragdolled by the Force Wave.
Originally posted by TenebrousWayExcept Orgus doesn't restrict his comment to Jedi. So, you don't need Zallow-Malgus comparisons. If Orgus saw Malgus, that applies to him as well, which he probably did. Hence the use of the "potentially" in my earlier post.
Unlikely. Deceived Malgus defeated Zallow rather quickly and decisively plus his force signature alone distorted the signature of Zallow plus the dozen Jedi knights that escorted the Jedi Master to meet Malgus. Aryn Leener upon watching the fight in Deceived notes that Malgus completely controlled the fight.
KotET Outlander is factually above Arcann as he managed to tank Vailyn Maelstrom while Arcann was immediately ragdolled by the Force Wave.Which would only prove that KOTET Outlander is a lot more powerful than his KOTFE self. Nothing more.
Also, considering Act III HoT needed help to defeat Malgus in the end game, it's pretty difficult to imagine that Act I HoT is more powerful than Deceived Malgus, who by his part, is far above his Return incarnation, who's factually one of the best warriors of the Empire already.Hmm, so you're suggesting that FE Malgus >>> Deceived Malgus. Interesting. 🙂
(I agree that it doesn't make sense, but we don't need Malgus to be included here anyway)
So, at the very start of his career as a Jedi, HoT impresses Orgus Din so much that he declares that the Force is stronger in HoT than he has seen in decades.
And TPM Anakin was stronger with the Force than in anyone Qui-Gon Jinn had met in his entire life. That doesn't mean he could lay out Yoda.
With a saber, Act I Hero was capable of killing The Sand Demon, a beast that feeds on Krayt Dragons.
Actually, if I recall correctly he killed a number of them, but that's hardly a big deal. The Tusken Raiders also hunted Krayt Dragons regularly, and I don't see anyone hyping up AotC Anakin for slaughtering them.
By the time he reaches the end of Act I, he is praised to be the most powerful Jedi from the GM herself. Satele Shan calls him a “Jedi without equal” and “our greatest weapon against the darkness."
Yeah, but who is he better than by that point who's worth their salt, exactly?
However, in Act III, he is so far above anyone else in the order that the Jedi don’t even consider sending in other Jedi (which includes names like Barsen’thor) or Scourge himself with him to face the Emperor, as they would be TP’ed instantly.
Pretty sure that has more to do with him being the only Jedi with the experience to deal with Vitiate's mental domination than it does with him being too uber for his fellow Jedi companeros to properly support him. His showings prior to and following his confrontation with the Emperor don't support that interpretation at all.
Even though he was already weakened, the Emperor, after being struck down (which is an event that harmed his power and spirit critically) was able to bring down a huge portion of the Dark Temple. This means that his power while facing the Hero is even greater.
It doesn't really mean that at all.
In SOR, he becomes a battlemaster. This means that he mastered all lightsaber forms [...] So he gets great Force amp.
The ****?
Add in the fact that he is tailored in melee and specializes on duels, and knows every form, and we know for a fact that--
--overwhelming him with a Force-based attack is super awesomesauce? 😛
Originally posted by Sinious
Except Orgus doesn't restrict his comment to Jedi. So, you don't need Zallow-Malgus comparisons. If Orgus saw Malgus, that applies to him as well, which he probably did. Hence the use of the "potentially" in my earlier post.
I view it more like a question of potential rather than available power. NewGuy explained my sentiment above.
Which would only prove that KOTET Outlander is a lot more powerful than his KOTFE self. Nothing more.
I typed that because your following phrase: "I can see Dooku taking Kotet HoTlander, but not the guy who ragdolled him." doesn't make sense.
Hmm, so you're suggesting that FE Malgus >>> Deceived Malgus. Interesting. 🙂
I'm not suggesting. He factually is:
He resided in the calm eye of a storm of hate. Power churned around him, within him. He did not feel as if he were drawing on the Force, using it. He felt as if he were the Force, as if he had merged with it.
He had evolved. Nothing split his loyalties any longer. He served the Force and only the Force, and his understanding of it increased daily.
False Emperor Malgus >/>>End of Deceived Malgus >> Deceived Malgus