Riv, it'd be helpful, late though it is now, for you to clarify what you mean by "CAN beat Superman". You seemed to be accepting 30% odds a few posts ago, the list I was compiling BEFORE I used these 2 Wikipedia lists are individuals who have either been SHOWN beating Superman (i.e. Cheetah Ballesteros), or individuals who leave little doubt in anyone's mind (i.e. Doctor Strange) that their spells would take Superman down or out if the need arose.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Riv, it'd be helpful, late though it is now, for you to clarify what you mean by "CAN beat Superman". You seemed to be accepting 30% odds a few posts ago, the list I was compiling BEFORE I used these 2 Wikipedia lists are individuals who have either been SHOWN beating Superman (i.e. Cheetah Ballesteros), or individuals who leave little doubt in anyone's mind (i.e. Doctor Strange) that their spells would take Superman down or out if the need arose.
I'm really not trying to overthink this, and can pretty much tell who's posting honest answers, knowing the posters here.
So thanks for all the input, it IS appreciated.
Originally posted by bluewaterriderYeah, DC list was 128 or more magic users. That's far more than 50. Some people need to do research before opening their mouths. But in superman fans defense, they probably didn't know such a alphabetical list existed or they don't know anything about DC except supermans rear.
The list obtained from Googling
"Marvel Comics magic users" ...Adria (comics)
Abdul Alhazred (comics)
Amatsu-Mikaboshi (comics)
Ancient One
Arabian Knight (comics)Eli Bard
Belasco (Marvel Comics)
Black Knight (Dane Whitman)
Black Raazer
Black Talon (comics)
Black Widow (Claire Voyant)
Black Widow (Marvel Comics)
Elsa Bloodstone
Ulysses Bloodstone
Brother Voodoo
Brothers Grimm (comics)Calypso (comics)
Captain Britain
Cat People (comics)
Centurious
Chondu the Mystic
Clea
Crimson CurseDakimh the Enchanter
Devil-Slayer
Diablo (Marvel Comics)
Dionysus (Marvel Comics)
Dire Wraith
Doctor Strange
Doom 2099
Doctor Doom
Dormammu
Doctor DruidEnchantress (Marvel Comics)
Feron
Forge (comics)Kulan Gath
Agatha Harkness
Hela (comics)
Daimon Hellstrom
Hybrid (Jimmy Marks)Junzo Muto
Jennifer Kale
Kaluu
Karnilla
Master Khan
KrugarrLilith (Marvel Comics)
Lionheart (comics)
Llan the Sorcerer
Loki (comics)
Lorelei (Asgardian)
LunatikMagik (comics)
Magique
Malekith the Accursed
Margali Szardos
Master Pandemonium
Merlin (Marvel Comics)
Merlyn (Marvel Comics)
Nico Minoru
Mister Jip
Modred the Mystic
Mojo (comics)
Moondark
Baron Mordo
Morgan le Fay (Marvel Comics)N'Kantu, the Living Mummy
Naga (Marvel Comics)
Necrom
Nekra
Nemesis (Alpha Flight)Pestilence (comics)
Pixie (X-Men)Rintrah (comics)
Roma (comics)Salem's Seven
Satana (Marvel Comics)
Saul (comics)
Scarlet Witch
Nicholas Scratch
Amanda Sefton
Selene (comics)
Shaman (comics)
Sise-Neg
Spider-X
Spiral (comics)
StygyroTai (comics)
Talisman (Alpha Flight)
Talon (Marvel Comics)
Tiboro
Tigra
Topaz (Marvel Comics)Umar (Marvel Comics)
Urthona (comics)Wiccan (comics)
Witches (Marvel Comics)
Witchfire (Marvel Comics)Zaladane
Zeus (Marvel Comics)
Originally posted by JBL
Yeah, DC list was 128 or more magic users. That's far more than 50. Some people need to do research before opening their mouths. But in superman fans defense, they probably didn't know such a alphabetical list existed or they don't know anything about DC except supermans rear.
Originally posted by JBL
Yeah, DC list was 128 or more magic users. That's far more than 50. Some people need to do research before opening their mouths. But in superman fans defense, they probably didn't know such a alphabetical list existed or they don't know anything about DC except supermans rear.
Lily Aldridge
Alessandra Ambrosio
Tyra Banks
Gisele Bündchen
Laetitia Casta
Helena Christensen
Selita Ebanks
Lindsay Ellingson
Izabel Goulart
Kate Grigorieva
Erin Heatherton
Taylor Marie Hill
Elsa Hosk
Martha Hunt
Rosie Huntington-Whiteley
Chanel Iman
Monika Jagaciak
Miranda Kerr
Karlie Kloss
Heidi Klum
Doutzen Kroes
Karolína Kurková
Adriana Lima
Stella Maxwell
Marisa Miller
Karen Mulder
Chandra North
Daniela Peštová
Behati Prinsloo
Lais Ribeiro
Inés Rivero
Sara Sampaio
Stephanie Seymour
Josephine Skriver
Romee Strijd
Candice Swanepoel
Jasmine Tookes
That's way more than a dozen 👆
Ok lets look at bluewaterriders DCU list and wittle it down to those who can actually take an occasional ein vs superman
Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld
Arion (comics)
Atlan (DC Comics)
Black Adam
Black Alice (comics)
Blaze and Satanus
Circe (comics)
John Constantine
Doctor Fate
Doctor Mist
Doctor Occult
Enchantress (DC Comics)
Felix Faust
Sebastian Faust
Geppetto (Fables)
Glorith
Hector Hall
Timothy Hunter
Ibis the Invincible
Ian Karkull
Kid Eternity
Klarion the Witch Boy
Kulak (DC Comics)
Morgaine le Fey (DC Comics)
Lord Satanis
Madame Xanadu
Maya (comics)
Merlin (DC Comics)
Papa Midnite
Mordru
Nebiros (DC Comics)
Neron (DC Comics)
Phantom Stranger
Poseidon (DC Comics)
Queen of Fables
Raven (comics)
Sargon the Sorcerer
Alan Scott
Shazam (wizard)
Spectre (character)
Jakeem Thunder
Johnny Thunder
White Witch (comics)
Wizard (DC Comics)
Wotan (comics)
Zatanna
Zatara
Zeus (DC Comics)
We've already gone from 123 down to 45.
21 of which are easily skyfather level and another 15 are mid to high herald.
This essentially brings down to 9 characters from DCU from mid meta to low herald level that we can draw the "weakest" from.
Consider that one of these (Arion) who under his own power (high meta) has a poor track record against Superman and has only had temorary wins when possessed by Mordru (skyfather) who adds to his own power. So most of these 9 at best are eeking out occasional wins only.
FTR the wiki list isnt completely comprehensive. Just for starters it omitts Arion's brother https://comicvine.gamespot.com/garn-daanuth/4005-56626/ as well as his mother Dark Majestra, and Father (both parents skyfathers his bro a high herald like him and hes been beaten by Supes) as well as several of his antagonists. Tjeres more but from a Single DCU title that means they missed 9 or so mystics.
Originally posted by beatboks
Ok lets look at bluewaterriders DCU list and wittle it down to those who can actually take an occasional ein vs supermanAmethyst, Princess of Gemworld
Arion (comics)
Atlan (DC Comics)
Black Adam
Black Alice (comics)
Blaze and Satanus
Circe (comics)
John Constantine
Doctor Fate
Doctor Mist
Doctor Occult
Enchantress (DC Comics)
Felix Faust
Sebastian Faust
Geppetto (Fables)
Glorith
Hector Hall
Timothy Hunter
Ibis the Invincible
Ian Karkull
Kid Eternity
Klarion the Witch Boy
Kulak (DC Comics)
Morgaine le Fey (DC Comics)
Lord Satanis
Madame Xanadu
Maya (comics)
Merlin (DC Comics)
Papa Midnite
Mordru
Nebiros (DC Comics)
Neron (DC Comics)
Phantom Stranger
Poseidon (DC Comics)
Queen of Fables
Raven (comics)
Sargon the Sorcerer
Alan Scott
Shazam (wizard)
Spectre (character)
Jakeem Thunder
Johnny Thunder
White Witch (comics)
Wizard (DC Comics)
Wotan (comics)
Zatanna
Zatara
Zeus (DC Comics)We've already gone from 123 down to 45.
21 of which are easily skyfather level and another 15 are mid to high herald.
This essentially brings down to 9 characters from DCU from mid meta to low herald level that we can draw the "weakest" from.
Consider that one of these (Arion) who under his own power (high meta) has a poor track record against Superman and has only had temorary wins when possessed by Mordru (skyfather) who adds to his own power. So most of these 9 at best are eeking out occasional wins only.
FTR the wiki list isnt completely comprehensive. Just for starters it omitts Arion's brother https://comicvine.gamespot.com/garn-daanuth/4005-56626/ as well as his mother Dark Majestra, and Father (both parents skyfathers his bro a high herald like him and hes been beaten by Supes) as well as several of his antagonists. Tjeres more but from a Single DCU title that means they missed 9 or so mystics.
Originally posted by riv6672
Interesting logic.
Better than a straight up dismissal at any rate.
Not sure exactly what you mean.
There is nothing to deny. Of course there are magic users that beat Superman it's been done, at least he has suffered temorary defeats and has been a part of a team that has been defeated (faust half a dozen times vs JLA, Wizard JLA/JSA team ups)
The likes of Kulak, Mordru, Amethyst, Nebiros, Neron, Spectre, Zeus, Queen of fables, White Witch and the two JT's would take a solid 10 out of 10 vs Supes(unless plot protected). Other omissions from the list like Nabu, Kismit, Chaon (and every other lord of order and Chaos not listed as only Amethyst, Shazam and Arion are) would also.
Then you have the likes of Hector, Dr Fate (sort of a duplication with hector), Circe, Tim Hunter, Wotan, Karkul, Klarion, Blaze, Satanus, Ibis, Morgane Le Fey and Merlin where arguments can be made for Superman taking an occasional win. All these in overall power level I would say are at or above Clark's level of power.
Then we have the Likes of Arion and Shazam who should fall in tje above 2 based on some feats but due to actual repeated encounters vs Clark where they have done poorly fall way short.
I'm simply trying to do what darksaint suggested and wityle the list down to identify the weakest that can win.
They don't have to be at Clark's level, they can be glass cannons. Could isn't would. It's like saying given a free shot could an 18 stone man who trains in boxing twice a week and lifts weights knock out a top fighter if he landed a clean shot on the golden inch. Yes, he has the power to beat them. Would he? Most of the time probably not.
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
They don't have to be at Clark's level, they can be glass cannons. Could isn't would. It's like saying given a free shot could an 18 stone man who trains in boxing twice a week and lifts weights knock out a top fighter if he landed a clean shot on the golden inch. Yes, he has the power to beat them. Would he? Most of the time probably not.
If this is directed at my last post and how I said some listed are at or above Clark's level, that's not what I'm saying.
Those I listed are the ones I'm saying take majority most of the time. There are plenty there are others on a list that would definitely be below Clark who can take wins (a minority)and that's what the threat is asking.
Doctor Occult for example is nowhere near Superman in power, he is vastly below. He can easily be beaten by Batman or any street level character, but he has the potential to take 2 or 3 wins out of 10 against Superman. When it comes to fighting magical threats while being only a few rungs from the bottom he can and has fight/fought those at the top (purely because of the hax of his disk). Arion is also based on his broad history of feats a fee tiers below Superman. He jas feats on Superman's level but they involve either outside power or giving 120% and leaving nothing in the tank. He should (based on his higher feats ) take a few wins vs Superman but the actuality of it is he has had the opportunities and failed every time (he's made abiut 10 appearances in superman comics and failed to win every time. Superman has even succedded in breaking thru his magical shield around Atlantis)
Originally posted by beatboks
Not sure exactly what you mean.
There is nothing to deny. Of course there are magic users that beat Superman it's been done, at least he has suffered temorary defeats and has been a part of a team that has been defeated (faust half a dozen times vs JLA, Wizard JLA/JSA team ups)The likes of Kulak, Mordru, Amethyst, Nebiros, Neron, Spectre, Zeus, Queen of fables, White Witch and the two JT's would take a solid 10 out of 10 vs Supes(unless plot protected). Other omissions from the list like Nabu, Kismit, Chaon (and every other lord of order and Chaos not listed as only Amethyst, Shazam and Arion are) would also.
Then you have the likes of Hector, Dr Fate (sort of a duplication with hector), Circe, Tim Hunter, Wotan, Karkul, Klarion, Blaze, Satanus, Ibis, Morgane Le Fey and Merlin where arguments can be made for Superman taking an occasional win. All these in overall power level I would say are at or above Clark's level of power.
Then we have the Likes of Arion and Shazam who should fall in tje above 2 based on some feats but due to actual repeated encounters vs Clark where they have done poorly fall way short.
I'm simply trying to do what darksaint suggested and wityle the list down to identify the weakest that can win.