Thor/Surfer/Sentry (voided out) vs JLA

Started by RealityWarper21 pages
Originally posted by carver9
Is that transmutation in the scans? Did Diana stay as clay?

That's one of typical Abhi's lies with a skipped context like usual.

The true context:

The members of the JLA were blasted by Disciple and progressively reverted to their PRIMAL FORMS throughout the entire comics.

Flash and Kyle revert to human-ape forms, Diana reverts to Clay, MMH reverts to something strange with tentacles and Superman reverts to some Kryptonian over-muscled primate form...

They were all saved by Diana whom became a ghost after her body reverted to clay.

She helped to pull the JLA all-together and with the lasso of truth she made Supes revert to himself.

They fight Disciple again in the end and Superman is still changing... The point is that the change is slow and reverting to his primal form just make him an over-muscled brute...

Superman has 0 chances to avoid being disintegrated and we all know that...

YOU CAN SEE THAT SUPERMAN IS A LOT MORE MUSCULAR, REVERTING INTO HIS PRIMAL FORM:

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I've been in more Sentry threads than you had warm meals.

Remember, you're still a KMC Acolyte.

👆

Still wouldn't stop me 🙂

Wow, just wow. Thanks for the scans reality.

Originally posted by carver9
Wow, just wow. Thanks for the scans reality.

My pleasure 🙂

Originally posted by Sin I AM
This but zops gonna steal use that amp line bs to push his narrative

WTF are you talking about. Voidtry already beat them. That's why Loki had to jump in with the Norn Stones to Heal and amp them. Even if you believe the amp wore off by the time Thor killed Voidtry it doesn't change the fact that they NEEDED the stones to even get that far and it still wouldn't have worked if he didn't want to die (as stated by the writer himself).

So STFU. 🙄

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I don't get the problem with that. We have on more than one occasion and for example him throwing himself into the sun and let himself burn to a crisp but he suddenly regenerated after the void told him he didn't want it enough and he was straight back.

If people read the Bendis interview they would know that he said he thought it would be obvious to everyone that read it but he didn't want to have some silly line where somebody says "wow if Sentry didn't want to die we couldn't have killed him".

And to address the point Abhi is making he says "You should have murdered me [b]more completely. And as we see in the comic we are shown that Sentry exists as a soul without the need for a body. He was still alive in the sun but wanted to stay "dead" so the Void left him.

So he's saying he murdered him you'd have to be a bit of a fool or a crazy person to say Thor never killed Sentry/Void in SIEGE. But lets not ignore the context behind it and why he was able to be killed in the first place. [/B]


It's been posted multiple times, they've seen it, they don't care. Reality also posted a scan showing how powerful the Norn Stones are, they ignored that too. So it's like talking to a wall at this point.

Originally posted by zopzop

It's been posted multiple times, they've seen it, they don't care. Reality also posted a scan showing how powerful the Norn Stones are, they ignored that too. So it's like talking to a wall at this point.

I will go further and say that it's like talking in a battle forum.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
That proves that you can fight Dominus just by strengthening your willpower. That's weak.

Sentry's reality warping directly affect all of matter and all energy like Molecule Man's... The Torquasm-Vo is ineffective against that.

Sentry's telepathy is so strong that telepath on the calibre of Xavier & Emma Frost have to politely ask Bob if they can enter inside his mind because otherwise it's too dangerous. Emma had to ask Xavier's help just to enter in the White Room that she created in Bob's mind with his consent and even then she had to leave fast because the Void was close to kill her.

She left with a miscellaneous sliver of the Void that forced her to remain in Diamond form and thus completely static to telepathy, to avoid the Void possessing her.

There is nothing that Superman can do with Torquasm-Vo.

It looks like more a duel of will like Batman succeed to do against a ninja.

The Astral Plane equalize nothing.

If you come in the Astral Plane without having psionic powers you are doomed because you can't defend yourself.

He is stated to have infinite speed in Storming Asgard and he can manipulate Time & Space because he is a reality warper anyway. Speed steal is completely useless.

Dominus was able to affect Kismet, a cosmic being akin to Marvel's eternity (The difference being mortals earn that position. But with Adam Warlock as the new Living Tribunal, maybe not so different.)

Superman also used T-Vo on Eradicator, who is hardly psychic, proving it isn't simply a defensive measure against psychics.

It's more of a psychic martial art anyone can use (Lois learned it to a degree.)

In theory, you can drag anyone into the theta state, even non psychics..

Originally posted by zopzop
WTF are you talking about. Voidtry already beat them. That's why Loki had to jump in with the Norn Stones to Heal and amp them. Even if you believe the amp wore off by the time Thor killed Voidtry it doesn't change the fact that they NEEDED the stones to even get that far and it still wouldn't have worked if he didn't want to die (as stated by the writer himself).

So STFU. 🙄

It's been posted multiple times, they've seen it, they don't care. Reality also posted a scan showing how powerful the Norn Stones are, they ignored that too. So it's like talking to a wall at this point.

You missed the point entirely. By the time Thor killed Sentry the amp was gone.

Noone is ignoring how powerful the amp was...calm down

Originally posted by Sin I AM
You missed the point entirely. By the time Thor killed Sentry the amp was gone.

Noone is ignoring how powerful the amp was...calm down


I'm aware of your point and addressed it. EVEN IF THE AMP WAS GONE by the time Thor 'killed' Voidtry, it doesn't change the fact that :
A) He already beat them that's why Loki jumped in and HEALED and AMPED THEM with the Norn Stones
B) He wanted to die as stated on panel and the writer of the comic

Besides Voidtry already chumped a more impressive lineup of heroes and they needed Sentry to jump in and save them (see a pattern?). I posted the scan of the lineup earlier.

Originally posted by cdtm
[B]Dominus was able to affect Kismet, a cosmic being akin to Marvel's eternity (The difference being mortals earn that position. But with Adam Warlock as the new Living Tribunal, maybe not so different.)

Kismet isn't even close in power to the Marvel abstracts that you are citing.

Superman also used T-Vo on Eradicator, who is hardly psychic, proving it isn't simply a defensive measure against psychics.

That was Eradicator's choice to fight using the T-Vo because he wanted to cleanse Superman's mind...

It's more of a psychic martial art anyone can use (Lois learned it to a degree.)

I agree on that.

In theory, you can drag anyone into the theta state, even non psychics..

You can't drag someone in it...

Dominus for example need to attack one person psychically before warping his reality. That's why the T-Vo was effective.

It will be useless against Sentry for the reasons I've already posted on the first pages.

Reality is in here destroying

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Kismet isn't even close in power to the Marvel abstracts that you are citing.

That was Eradicator's choice to fight using the T-Vo because he wanted to cleanse Superman's mind...

I agree on that.

You can't drag someone in it...

Dominus for example need to attack one person psychically before warping his reality. That's why the T-Vo was effective.

It will be useless against Sentry for the reasons I've already posted on the first pages.

Your scan actually proves my point, though.

Eradicator pulled Superman in to the theta state.

Clark was expressing shock and surprise, he couldn't possibly have agreed to initiate the psychic conflict.

And what use is a martial art that relies in your opponent to agree to your terms anyways? ideally, you want to control the conditions a conflict, a MA someone can avoid by simply saying "No" is a pretty useless martial art.

MM cajoles/sweet talks Bob fractured mind into putting void away.
Supes takes confused sentry with hv or blitz to sun.
The duo gets overwhelmed.

Gud avenue for forum win.

Originally posted by carver9
Reality is in here destroying

He really is. Entertaining to say the least.

😆

Flash can beat Sentry.
With bfr or speed steal.

/thread

Originally posted by zopzop
WTF are you talking about. Voidtry already beat them. That's why Loki had to jump in with the Norn Stones to Heal and amp them. Even if you believe the amp wore off by the time Thor killed Voidtry it doesn't change the fact that they NEEDED the stones to even get that far and it still wouldn't have worked if he didn't want to die (as stated by the writer himself).

So STFU. 🙄

"Even if you believe"?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8Aw6jspskhw/VSFsAiynfXI/AAAAAAAJ1oQ/3EytSM5s0-I/s1600/p9_10%2Bcopy.jpg

The amp wore off zoppy boy.

Bendis also said Sentry does not has molecule manipulation.

"Just because the Sentry/The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn’t mean that he actually did."

http://www.cbr.com/storming-heaven-siege-4/

That should be true too, huh?

It's been posted multiple times, they've seen it, they don't care. Reality also posted a scan showing how powerful the Norn Stones are, they ignored that too. So it's like talking to a wall at this point.

Norn stones aren't powerful enough for what you think they were doing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
"Even if you believe"?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8Aw6jspskhw/VSFsAiynfXI/AAAAAAAJ1oQ/3EytSM5s0-I/s1600/p9_10%2Bcopy.jpg

The amp wore off zoppy boy.

Bendis also said Sentry does not has molecule manipulation.

"Just because the Sentry/The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn’t mean that he actually did."

http://www.cbr.com/storming-heaven-siege-4/

That should be true too, huh?

Norn stones aren't powerful enough for what you think they were doing.

He doesn't say Sentry does not have the ability. He said as you quoted that just because he said he did doesn't mean he actually did. Different from outright stating he doesn't have the power to manipulate molecules.

The full quote.

"I see there is a lot of online speculation about that, and I thought it was pretty clear. I don’t like to over analyze these things. I prefer the work to speak for itself, but I’ll put two things out there.

I think we’ve all met crazy people in our lives, and I think you learn pretty quickly that when you’re dealing with a crazy person, you can’t trust what they’re saying to be true. Just because the Sentry/The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn’t mean that he actually did. He just thought that he did. He was a crazy person and maybe a drug addict, as the character’s creator, Paul Jenkins, put out there. So not everything he was saying wasn’t necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. I know that’s difficult for some people, because when they read a story, they don’t want to feel like they’re being ****ed with. That character, though, was not in control of himself. There wasn’t one second throughout the run of “Dark Avengers” where he was in control of himself.

Number two, yes, Bob realized that things had gone as far as they could possibly go. There was no other end for him and without his cooperation he doesn’t go away. I just didn’t want to have a line in the script where someone like Spider-Woman goes, “Boy, if he didn’t want us to kill him, we couldn’t have killed him.” I see a lot of people got it, though, or they were just so happy to see the Sentry die they didn’t give a shit how it happened [Laughs]."

Not denying the fact that it hypothetically isn't molecule manipulation but Bendis never outright said it wasn't.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Bendis also said Sentry does not has molecule manipulation.

"Just because the Sentry / The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn’t mean that he actually did."

http://www.cbr.com/storming-heaven-siege-4/

That should be true too, huh?

You're missing out on a lot of additional information.

The full interview with Bendis states, that Sentry maybe had the power to manipulate molecules and that he maybe didn't:

"I think we’ve all met crazy people in our lives, and I think you learn pretty quickly that when you’re dealing with a crazy person, you can’t trust what they’re saying to be true. Just because the Sentry / The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn’t mean that he actually did. He just thought that he did. He was a crazy person and maybe a drug addict, as the character’s creator, Paul Jenkins, put out there. So not everything he was saying wasn’t necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t."

To me it sounds like he is talking about Sentrys nature and the nature of his powers in a very general way. In direction relation to his mental illness, that is.

In another interview Bendis again talks about Sentrys powers and directly relates them to the ones of the Molecule Man:

http://www.cbr.com/storming-heaven-siege-3/

"What I’ve always enjoyed about The Void is, the character itself has all these different physical manifestations. They’re unexplained until you realize he’s got the power of someone, say, like a Molecule Man. He’s got power over physical space, but his mental illness makes it where he creates these creatures. Some people with severe bipolar disorders see these creatures in the corner of their eye, and I’ve actually known people who this has happened to. I knew someone who literally had to sculpt them into creation to make them go away. So my version of this is he is someone who, with his power, literally creates them in the persona of the Void."

Later on Bendis goes on to say, that he views the Sentry as:

"Bob is a sick man, with the power of a god [...]"

And in another interview Bendis has once again related Sentrys powers to the ones of the Molecule Man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6AzWzxcV74

"We've now unveiled all of our cards - about who the Sentry is and what his powers are. We've unveiled in Dark Avengers #12 that the Sentry, on top of his powers, has powers like the Molecule Man. He actually has the ability to craft / to form a reality from a molecular level. And that's where his powers have come from. [...] And there is no limit to the power level that he has."

If you want to explain Sentrys main power set easily, then it's the ability to warp the reality on a molecular level.

Maybe he doesn't have the fine control over reality the way Molecule Man does it. Molecule Man used to manipulate atoms, protons even. Sentry seems to be manipulating molecules, which consist out of atoms. So he is more clunky in that regard. That's probably why Sentry needed Molecule Man to fix the city for him. But what Sentry might lack in finesse, he has even more so in power. We have seen the Sentry come out on top against the Molecule Man with raw power. And that's quite the feat, if you ask me.

But something else, that I personally find very interesting is this scan:

http://i.imgur.com/28OvvYU.jpg

Molecule Man (depowered, weakened or not) tells the Sentry, that he has never experienced something like the Sentry. And we're talking about the Molecule Man here... the guy, whose fights were felt across different time lines and dimensions. He has never come across something like the Sentry.
Which tells me, that there is something very, very different with the Sentry. He might be an entirely unique being in the Marvel universe, if even the God of all molecules can't tell what he is.
Now that might have been the reason why Sentry was able to beat the Molecule Man in the first place. Or it might not have been. As Bendis said... As a character the Sentry ****s with your mind.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Norn stones aren't powerful enough for what you think they were doing.

I'm not that well versed with the Norn Stones, but from the research I did:

I think, that the Norn Stones grant wishes. They pretty much let you do, what you wish the most. So in a sense they warp the reality.
Loki gave the Norn Stones to the Hood, who had lost his powers before and the Norn Stones gave him his powers back.
Morgan Le Fay used the Norn Stones and Surturs Twilight Sword to restore reality (the universe?). Which is crazy, if you think about it.
And the Avengers got amped to a point, where even Captain America was capable of harming the Void.

I don't think it's crazy to assume, that the Norn Stones are Skyfather level artifacts. Prof Mc To the B to the Abe asked if they were multiversal in scale, but I think that's over the top. But as I said... Skyfather level artifacts? Very well possible.
So the Sentry got attacked by a legion of heroes, who were very likely amped to Skyfather levels. And they still weren't able to stop him properly. That's just crazy.

Enzeru, OAS AND Realitywarper together?

Abhi, prepare thyself.