Thor/Surfer/Sentry (voided out) vs JLA

Started by abhilegend21 pages

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
He doesn't say Sentry does not have the ability. He said as you quoted that just because he said he did doesn't mean he actually did. Different from outright stating he doesn't have the power to manipulate molecules.

The full quote.

"I see there is a lot of online speculation about that, and I thought it was pretty clear. I don’t like to over analyze these things. I prefer the work to speak for itself, but I’ll put two things out there.

I think we’ve all met crazy people in our lives, and I think you learn pretty quickly that when you’re dealing with a crazy person, you can’t trust what they’re saying to be true. Just because the Sentry/The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn’t mean that he actually did. He just thought that he did. He was a crazy person and maybe a drug addict, as the character’s creator, Paul Jenkins, put out there. So not everything he was saying wasn’t necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. I know that’s difficult for some people, because when they read a story, they don’t want to feel like they’re being ****ed with. That character, though, was not in control of himself. There wasn’t one second throughout the run of “Dark Avengers” where he was in control of himself.

Number two, yes, Bob realized that things had gone as far as they could possibly go. There was no other end for him and without his cooperation he doesn’t go away. I just didn’t want to have a line in the script where someone like Spider-Woman goes, “Boy, if he didn’t want us to kill him, we couldn’t have killed him.” I see a lot of people got it, though, or they were just so happy to see the Sentry die they didn’t give a shit how it happened [Laughs]."

Not denying the fact that it hypothetically isn't molecule manipulation but Bendis never outright said it wasn't.


There are no other ways to interpret what he said.

If you want to dissect it and try to interpret it anotger way that's your lookout.

Originally posted by Enzeru
You're missing out on a lot of additional information.

The full interview with Bendis states, that Sentry maybe had the power to manipulate molecules and that he maybe didn't:

"I think we’ve all met crazy people in our lives, and I think you learn pretty quickly that when you’re dealing with a crazy person, you can’t trust what they’re saying to be true. Just because the Sentry / The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn’t mean that he actually did. He just thought that he did. He was a crazy person and maybe a drug addict, as the character’s creator, Paul Jenkins, put out there. So not everything he was saying wasn’t necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t."

To me it sounds like he is talking about Sentrys nature and the nature of his powers in a very general way. In direction relation to his mental illness, that is.

In another interview Bendis again talks about Sentrys powers and directly relates them to the ones of the Molecule Man:

http://www.cbr.com/storming-heaven-siege-3/

"What I’ve always enjoyed about The Void is, the character itself has all these different physical manifestations. They’re unexplained until you realize he’s got the power of someone, say, like a Molecule Man. He’s got power over physical space, but his mental illness makes it where he creates these creatures. Some people with severe bipolar disorders see these creatures in the corner of their eye, and I’ve actually known people who this has happened to. I knew someone who literally had to sculpt them into creation to make them go away. So my version of this is he is someone who, with his power, literally creates them in the persona of the Void."

Later on Bendis goes on to say, that he views the Sentry as:

"Bob is a sick man, with the power of a god [...]"

And in another interview Bendis has once again related Sentrys powers to the ones of the Molecule Man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6AzWzxcV74

"We've now unveiled all of our cards - about who the Sentry is and what his powers are. We've unveiled in Dark Avengers #12 that the Sentry, on top of his powers, has powers like the Molecule Man. He actually has the ability to craft / to form a reality from a molecular level. And that's where his powers have come from. [...] And there is no limit to the power level that he has."

If you want to explain Sentrys main power set easily, then it's the ability to warp the reality on a molecular level.

Maybe he doesn't have the fine control over reality the way Molecule Man does it. Molecule Man used to manipulate atoms, protons even. Sentry seems to be manipulating molecules, which consist out of atoms. So he is more clunky in that regard. That's probably why Sentry needed Molecule Man to fix the city for him. But what Sentry might lack in finesse, he has even more so in power. We have seen the Sentry come out on top against the Molecule Man with raw power. And that's quite the feat, if you ask me.

But something else, that I personally find very interesting is this scan:

http://i.imgur.com/28OvvYU.jpg

Molecule Man (depowered, weakened or not) tells the Sentry, that he has never experienced something like the Sentry. And we're talking about the Molecule Man here... the guy, whose fights were felt across different time lines and dimensions. He has never come across something like the Sentry.
Which tells me, that there is something very, very different with the Sentry. He might be an entirely unique being in the Marvel universe, if even the God of all molecules can't tell what he is.
Now that might have been the reason why Sentry was able to beat the Molecule Man in the first place. Or it might not have been. As Bendis said... As a character the Sentry ****s with your mind.

I'm not that well versed with the Norn Stones, but from the research I did:

I think, that the Norn Stones grant wishes. They pretty much let you do, what you wish the most. So in a sense they warp the reality.
Loki gave the Norn Stones to the Hood, who had lost his powers before and the Norn Stones gave him his powers back.
Morgan Le Fay used the Norn Stones and Surturs Twilight Sword to restore reality (the universe?). Which is crazy, if you think about it.
And the Avengers got amped to a point, where even Captain America was capable of harming the Void.

I don't think it's crazy to assume, that the Norn Stones are Skyfather level artifacts. Prof Mc To the B to the Abe asked if they were multiversal in scale, but I think that's over the top. But as I said... Skyfather level artifacts? Very well possible.
So the Sentry got attacked by a legion of heroes, who were very likely amped to Skyfather levels. And they still weren't able to stop him properly. That's just crazy.


Oh its you again. I wonder what you will throw tantrums about.

Suffice to say Bendis talked a long talk and had little to show for Sentry. For all his "reality creating power" he was unable to fix even a city.

I don't think you understand what you are talking about and frankly I don't even care. Just say your part and get out.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Enzeru, OAS AND Realitywarper together?

Abhi, prepare thyself.


Scot is my boy. The other two? One is a childish troll and other is just a racist trash. I couldn't care less about their overinflated opinions and egos.

Originally posted by abhilegend
There are no other ways to interpret what he said.

If you want to dissect it and try to interpret it anotger way that's your lookout.

You're the person who said Bendis states he murdered Sentry as if he was permanently killed. Which he wasn't. As he says you should have murdered me more completely.

And I disagree about their being other ways to interpret stuff. He wasn't fully killed and we know that. That's all I am saying Abhi.

To say that Bendis said Sentry was murdered is disingenuous. Because he was still alive of his own free will. Not permitting himself to return. Which is why he said "more completely".

Originally posted by abhilegend
Scot is my boy. The other two? One is a childish troll and other is just a racist trash. I couldn't care less about their overinflated opinions and egos.

group

That wasn't Bendis. It was Remender. And you can't "murder" someone with his consent.

Sentry is talking about he is resurrected, not that Thor half killed him.

Sentry was killed. Apocalypse twins brought him back to life. We actually saw it happening.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That wasn't Bendis. It was Remender. And you can't "murder" someone with his consent.

Sentry is talking about he is resurrected, not that Thor half killed him.

Sentry was killed. Apocalypse twins brought him back to life.

I know who wrote what interviews, that's not an issue. Why would he be addressing Thor then if he is talking about resurrection? Thor didn't "resurrect" him did he. Unless you meant who wrote the comics, which still I know who wrote what etc.

If he's saying "you should have murdered me more completely" to Thor then what would he be referencing? The time when Thor supposedly murdered him which was SIEGE.

Sentry had wanted to stay dead so he prevented his body from regenerating/void coming back. So you can argue when they found his skeleton and used the Life Seed as its an artefact of Celestial origin it is very potent. Who knows perhaps it was able to overide Sentry wanting to stay dead. Or perhaps he saw it as an opportunity to carry out a plan. We can't be 100% sure.

And yeah I know what scene you mean. We see 4 bodies partially wrapped in cloth wrapping in a sort of silhouette.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Sentry was killed. Apocalypse twins brought him back to life.

No, he wasn't.

He was in the Sun, burning down to an atom and regenerating back, over and over again. The Void side of him wanted to stay regenerated and go back to Earth, while the Sentry side fought against that and let himself burn down again and again.

http://i.imgur.com/YXy4FcA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/82dVy5q.jpg

Once the Void left the Apocalypse twins came along and used their Death Seed on Sentry.

And I really don't get the idea of Thor being able to kill the Sentry under his own power and intentions.
We've seen how Thor did against Sentry prior to Sentry basically committing suicide by another mans hand:

http://i.imgur.com/IEHrXo7.jpg

Thor attacks Sentry. Nothing spectacular happens.

http://i.imgur.com/ybfzNPr.jpg

Thor attacks Sentry with ALL THE POWER UNDER HIS COMMAND. He barely damages hit outer shell.

http://i.imgur.com/4heq5Kw.jpg

In the next scene Thor is being strangled. Unable to do anything.

http://i.imgur.com/LjBM8Ca.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IqnQNaS.jpg

Then Thor and the rest of the Avengers receive insane power upgrades and start harming the Void. Captain America manages to cut Voids head off, Thor attacks him with huge lightning. Void is still standing and kills Loki.

http://i.imgur.com/sv33eBo.jpg

Thor is enraged, his eyes roll back and he continues attacking Thor. Nothing happens.

http://i.imgur.com/EfqrFxo.jpg

After all the damage Void has received from the amped up heroes they hit him with the helicarrier, a giant ass construct in its own right, but filled with weapons and other vehicles, which would naturally increase the detonation.

And that reverts him only back to Robert Reynolds. Pretty much no real harm done other than punching some sense into him.

http://i.imgur.com/SSqnsRp.jpg

And then when Robert Reynolds asks to be killed, Thor all of a sudden has the needed power to kill him. Even though he wasn't able to stop him before. Even when striking with all the power under his command. Even with major power upgrades. He wasn't able to put the Void down. But the moment Bob / Sentry / Void asks to be killed, Thor manages to put him down. Kinda obvious what went down, right? The writer of the story worded it the same way.
Sentry wanted to be killed in order to stop himself from destroying everything. He gave the heroes a fighting chance. If he didn't do that this would have happened:

http://i.imgur.com/Y5hGkma.jpg

Thor was dishing out some major power in those scans. Crazy power.

Originally posted by cdtm
Your scan actually proves my point, though.

Not really.

Eradicator pulled Superman in to the theta state.

He didn't.

He challenge Superman to accept a duel in Torquasm-Vo and Superman accept.

Clark was expressing shock and surprise, he couldn't possibly have agreed to initiate the psychic conflict.

He did agree the moment he engaged the fight with Eradicator.

And what use is a martial art that relies in your opponent to agree to your terms anyways? ideally, you want to control the conditions a conflict, a MA someone can avoid by simply saying "No" is a pretty useless martial art.

The Torquasm-Vo is a "consciousness control discipline" and is considered a meditative technique. it has mostly a defensive purpose, Superman used it to defend Dominus invasion of his mind by using his willpower. Unfortunately extremely powerful telepaths in Marvel can't defend or attack against Sentry's telepathy without his consent.

That makes the Torquasm-Vo completely useless.

Thor killed the Void but it was because Reynolds forced his hand by transforming and Reynolds wanted to die at that point. Also that was an incredibly high showing for Thor's lightning in context and in different circumstances the Void would've just regenerated again unless Mjolnir can prevent that somehow (See:Loki, Hela etc) as Sentry did note Thor actually murdered him.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I know who wrote what interviews, that's not an issue. Why would he be addressing Thor then if he is talking about resurrection? Thor didn't "resurrect" him did he. Unless you meant who wrote the comics, which still I know who wrote what etc.

If he's saying "you should have murdered me more completely" to Thor then what would he be referencing? The time when Thor supposedly murdered him which was SIEGE.

That's the only interpretation possible. Everything else is just conjecture.

Thor murdered Void/Sentry. Not killed him with his own permission.

Sentry had wanted to stay dead so he prevented his body from regenerating/void coming back. So you can argue when they found his skeleton and used the Life Seed as its an artefact of Celestial origin it is very potent. Who knows perhaps it was able to overide Sentry wanting to stay dead. Or perhaps he saw it as an opportunity to carry out a plan. We can't be 100% sure.

This is 100% fanfiction. I expected better from you.

And yeah I know what scene you mean. We see 4 bodies partially wrapped in cloth wrapping in a sort of silhouette.

Exactly. If Sentry was regenerating from atoms within sun and was always alive, that scene makes zero sense.

Originally posted by Enzeru
No, he wasn't.

He was in the Sun, burning down to an atom and regenerating back, over and over again. The Void side of him wanted to stay regenerated and go back to Earth, while the Sentry side fought against that and let himself burn down again and again.

http://i.imgur.com/YXy4FcA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/82dVy5q.jpg

Once the Void left the Apocalypse twins came along and used their Death Seed on Sentry.

And I really don't get the idea of Thor being able to kill the Sentry under his own power and intentions.
We've seen how Thor did against Sentry prior to Sentry basically committing suicide by another mans hand:

http://i.imgur.com/IEHrXo7.jpg

Thor attacks Sentry. Nothing spectacular happens.

http://i.imgur.com/ybfzNPr.jpg

Thor attacks Sentry with ALL THE POWER UNDER HIS COMMAND. He barely damages hit outer shell.

http://i.imgur.com/4heq5Kw.jpg

In the next scene Thor is being strangled. Unable to do anything.

http://i.imgur.com/LjBM8Ca.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IqnQNaS.jpg

Then Thor and the rest of the Avengers receive insane power upgrades and start harming the Void. Captain America manages to cut Voids head off, Thor attacks him with huge lightning. Void is still standing and kills Loki.

http://i.imgur.com/sv33eBo.jpg

Thor is enraged, his eyes roll back and he continues attacking Thor. Nothing happens.

http://i.imgur.com/EfqrFxo.jpg

After all the damage Void has received from the amped up heroes they hit him with the helicarrier, a giant ass construct in its own right, but filled with weapons and other vehicles, which would naturally increase the detonation.

And that reverts him only back to Robert Reynolds. Pretty much no real harm done other than punching some sense into him.

http://i.imgur.com/SSqnsRp.jpg

And then when Robert Reynolds asks to be killed, Thor all of a sudden has the needed power to kill him. Even though he wasn't able to stop him before. Even when striking with all the power under his command. Even with major power upgrades. He wasn't able to put the Void down. But the moment Bob / Sentry / Void asks to be killed, Thor manages to put him down. Kinda obvious what went down, right? The writer of the story worded it the same way.
Sentry wanted to be killed in order to stop himself from destroying everything. He gave the heroes a fighting chance. If he didn't do that this would have happened:

http://i.imgur.com/Y5hGkma.jpg


You don't know what you're talking about as usual. Sentry was insane under Remender and nothing he said can be taken on face value. We clearly see Apocalypse twins resurrecting him and others three and their bodies.

Go read Uncanny Avengers and come back.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor killed the Void but it was because Reynolds forced his hand by transforming and Reynolds wanted to die at that point. Also that was an incredibly high showing for Thor's lightning in context and in different circumstances the Void would've just regenerated again unless Mjolnir can prevent that somehow (See:Loki, Hela etc) as Sentry did note Thor actually murdered him.

😂

Here I thought Sentry was molecule man level. How was Thor even able to harm him, much less kill him?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Scot is my boy. The other two? One is a childish troll and other is just a racist trash. I couldn't care less about their overinflated opinions and egos.

I think that it's actually hilarious that you call me a "childish troll" when you are barely legal, throws insults at everyone whom disagree with your opinions, because that's all it is, and that you call me a troll when you post bullshit with nothing to back it up and antagonize everyone. 😆

On topic, you have the bad habit to nitpick everyone that fits or doesn't fit your opinions...

Several writers and characters already said that Sentry can craft the reality / molecule manipulate and that he has unlimited power-level.

You exposed your cognitive bias towards Sentry by calling him a "low copy of Superman" which is superficial and inaccurate.

Sentry stomps. The JLA has nothing to counter him.

Originally posted by abhilegend

You don't know what you're talking about as usual. Sentry was insane under Remender and nothing he said can be taken on face value. We clearly see Apocalypse twins resurrecting him and others three and their bodies.

But I've said and showcased the same thing?

Sentry was never really dead. He wanted to stay in the Sun in order to keep the Void at bay. The Void wanted to live, so he regenerated back, but the Sentry didn't want it, so he burnt down. Again and again until the Void got bored and left.

The Apocalypse twins came along, pulled Sentrys crisp body out of the Sun and put a Death Seed into him.

Sentry was only physically dead. His mind was always active. We can assume that, because he saw the Apocalypse twins coming and pulling him out of the Sun. And we know it, because he himself said, that his body is only a shell and that he is driven by his soul (which is most likely his mind / consciousness).

Although I'm not sure why this now really matters. Fact is, that even with amps Thor couldn't stop the Sentry. He only managed to do it, was when the Sentry himself allowed it to happen.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's the only interpretation possible. Everything else is just conjecture.

Thor murdered Void/Sentry. Not killed him with his own permission.

This is 100% fanfiction. I expected better from you.

Exactly. If Sentry was regenerating from atoms within sun and was always alive, that scene makes zero sense.

Of course its fanfiction, did you really think that I was stating any of that as a fact? I was offering a possible explanation. Honestly I was just saying how one might wanna look at it.

He was only regenerating from atoms because the Void was trying to regain control over Sentry's body, and as Sentry describes he left after he became bored of the cycle.

Haha funny how RealityWarper, Enzeru and then me comment all in a row. DarkSaints prophecy is coming true 😂

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Haha funny how RealityWarper, Enzeru and then me comment all in a row. DarkSaints prophecy is coming true 😂

Yes 😉

Originally posted by Enzeru
But I've said and showcased the same thing?

Sentry was never really dead. He wanted to stay in the Sun in order to keep the Void at bay. The Void wanted to live, so he regenerated back, but the Sentry didn't want it, so he burnt down. Again and again until the Void got bored and left.

ermm

And this is supported by what? A deranged Sentry saying so?

The Apocalypse twins came along, pulled Sentrys crisp body out of the Sun and put a Death Seed into him.

How were they even able to do so with an atomized Sentry?

And why would there be "Rise and live again" for all the characters?

Sentry was only physically dead. His mind was always active. We can assume that, because he saw the Apocalypse twins coming and pulling him out of the Sun. And we know it, because he himself said, that his body is only a shell and that he is driven by his soul (which is most likely his mind / consciousness).

This is some fanfiction.net level bullshit. Sentry also died from Exitar's blast.

Sentry was deranged and insane. There is nothing believable in what he said throughout the arc.

You can certainly understand the situation.

Although I'm not sure why this now really matters. Fact is, that even with amps Thor couldn't stop the Sentry. He only managed to do it, was when the Sentry himself allowed it to happen.

There is nothing in the comic to support that. Thor murdered Sentry as per himself.

Try again.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Of course its fanfiction, did you really think that I was stating any of that as a fact? I was offering a possible explanation. Honestly I was just saying how one might wanna look at it.

He was only regenerating from atoms because the Void was trying to regain control over Sentry's body, and as Sentry describes he left after he became bored of the cycle.


Or all of that was nonsense from an insane person which isn't believable in the least.

Those are cold hard facts though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or all of that was nonsense from an insane person which isn't believable in the least.

Those are cold hard facts though.

The thign si though Abhi then do we presume that almost everything he has said is a lie? I'm a schizophrenic myself. But I'm not perpetually lying. I might dometimes when I'm having a breakdown but it's not a constant thing.

It essentially becomes a pick and choose game unless we go through it thoroughly.