Originally posted by Darth Thor
H fought them both at the same time, hard to say he beat Maul though.Same episode prior to that fight him and Maul had an extended 1 on 1 which seemed pretty equal.
Sounds like Kenobi grew in skill and power since then if he was able to hold off both Maul and his brother at the same time.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Honestly, if there wasn't a bottomless pit behind him for Maul exploit, Obi-Wan could have beaten him in that duel.
It reminds me how Obi Wan was super lucky his Ep3 fight with Anakin took place around lava platforms and shit.
Dude would be deader than dead if it took place in some random meadow or something. Thankfully Obi Wan had boots on that gave him a +2 to agility.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Don't see how that helps Kenobi? He's still on the floor without his weapon, but right in front of a Maul whose ready to kill him. If anything the bottomless pit was the plot helping Obi-Wan.
Yes, because there's no way he can get his saber back. I guess Obi-Wan won the duel on Mustafar when he disarmed Anakin in that control room.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Yes, because there's no way he can get his saber back. I guess Obi-Wan won the duel on Mustafar when he disarmed Anakin in that control room.
1) Obi-Wan and Anakin disarmed each other and were both constantly struggling to gain the superior position.
2) Given their (Maul and Kenobi's) positions it was far more likely Maul would get to Obi-Wan's weapon first.
3) Either way Maul was clearly in the superior position and there's like Zero evidence pointing to the notion that Obi-Wan would have won that fight without Qui-Gon's weapon or without the bottomless pit.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
1) Obi-Wan and Anakin disarmed each other and were both constantly struggling to gain the superior position.2) Given their (Maul and Kenobi's) positions it was far more likely Maul would get to Obi-Wan's weapon first.
3) Either way Maul was clearly in the superior position and there's like Zero evidence pointing to the notion that Obi-Wan would have won that fight without Qui-Gon's weapon or without the bottomless pit.
Obi-Wan disarmed him first. Anakin just started choking him.
Oh, because Obi-Wan can't just pull it back with the Force or go for Qui-Gon.
Maul got knocked on his ass, his saber was cut in half and if he was just a split second slower getting up he would have been cut by Kenobi. Obi-Wan had every chance to win that fight.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Obi-Wan disarmed him first. Anakin just started choking him.
We didn't see in what way shape or form Kenobi disarmed Anakin. All we know is Anakin was choking Kenobi weaponless but Kenobi still had his weapon. It could be Anakin let his own weapon go to choke Obi-Wan.
I'm not arguing that being disarmed is necessarily the end of the fight, but it's certainly not an ideal position to be in. Being disarmed and floored is like 10 times worse.
Originally posted by PsychotronOh, because Obi-Wan can't just pull it back with the Force or go for Qui-Gon.
Yeah because only Kenobi can lift his weapon? Maul can't touch it right?
So let's see whose more likely to get to the weapon first, the guy standing in combat position, or the floored guy who can't stop himself continually rolling back? Hmm
Once Obi-Wan uses Qui-Gon's weapon he's been dependent on outside factors to survive the fight.
Originally posted by PsychotronMaul got knocked on his ass, his saber was cut in half and if he was just a split second slower getting up he would have been cut by Kenobi. Obi-Wan had every chance to win that fight.
Ah yes, the only thing the Kenobi camp has going for it, the one time Maul was caught off guard and hit by Obi-Wan. Let's just forget the 3 times Maul put Kenobi on his butt, 2 of those times leaving Kenobi helpless and disarmed of his weapon.
The 1 time Maul got put on his ass by Obi-Wan, he jumped straight back up and never let go of his weapon. How can you not see the difference there?
Obi-Wan had his 1 chance. He was unsuccessful. He certainly did not have "every" chance to win that fight.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
We didn't see in what way shape or form Kenobi disarmed Anakin. All we know is Anakin was choking Kenobi weaponless but Kenobi still had his weapon. It could be Anakin let his own weapon go to choke Obi-Wan.I'm not arguing that being disarmed is necessarily the end of the fight, but it's certainly not an ideal position to be in. Being disarmed and floored is like 10 times worse.
Yeah because only Kenobi can lift his weapon? Maul can't touch it right?
So let's see whose more likely to get to the weapon first, the guy standing in combat position, or the floored guy who can't stop himself continually rolling back? Hmm
Once Obi-Wan uses Qui-Gon's weapon he's been dependent on outside factors to survive the fight.
Ah yes, the only thing the Kenobi camp has going for it, the one time Maul was caught off guard and hit by Obi-Wan. Let's just forget the 3 times Maul put Kenobi on his butt, 2 of those times leaving Kenobi helpless and disarmed of his weapon.
The 1 time Maul got put on his ass by Obi-Wan, he jumped straight back up and never let go of his weapon. How can you not see the difference there?
Obi-Wan had his 1 chance. He was unsuccessful. He certainly did not have "every" chance to win that fight.
Yes, Anakin threw his saber across the room to choke Obi-Wan. Quite logical.
I don't see how position matters when they have tk. Maul's entire victory in that duel was due to an outside factor.
I'm talking about the angry Kenobi only. And yes, damaging your opponent's weapon, putting him on the ground and almost killing him is pretty indicative of having a good chance. We don't know how the duel would have went if that hole wasn't there, but to say Obi-Wan didn't have a chance is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Yes, Anakin threw his saber across the room to choke Obi-Wan. Quite logical.
If Obi-Wan disarming Anakin left Obi-Wan open to be choked then I don't see how that's a comparable situation at all.
Obi-Wan was disarmed and floored and left uncontrollably rolling backwards by Maul who was in a perfectly good position himself. Very very different situations.
Originally posted by Psychotron
I don't see how position matters when they have tk. Maul's entire victory in that duel was due to an outside factor.
Positions clearly do matter given how Kenobi beat Anakin in ROTS.
Maul was clearly the most skilled combatant on the field, hence why he was a match for Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan combined. There was no luck involved with his showings of superiority.
Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm talking about the angry Kenobi only. And yes, damaging your opponent's weapon, putting him on the ground and almost killing him is pretty indicative of having a good chance. We don't know how the duel would have went if that hole wasn't there, but to say Obi-Wan didn't have a chance is ridiculous.
Okay, "angry" Kenobi only. Let's just forget that Maul had already been through multiple rounds himself whilst Kenobi was out of the fight for a while and seemingly recharged with that extra motivational boost of seeing his Master killed.
Yes angry Kenobi did very well cutting Maul's weapon and flooring him. And sure he certainly had "A Chance" of winning at that point. Just as Qui-Gon also had "A Chance" at victory when he punched Maul down a couple of floors making him land straight on his back.
If "the hole" wasn't there then the fight has essentially stopped (from our point of view) with Maul flooring and disarming "angry" Obi-Wan. It ended with Maul in a much superior position as far as we know.
Also the hole isn't something Kenobi just forgot was there, the way Maul forgot about Qui-Gon's saber. It was a pretty blatant part of the environment which the entire final fight took place right next to. Obi-Wan fell in because he was overpowered by Maul, and not due to some unforseen outside factor which Kenobi had no clue about.
I never said Obi-Wan stood no chance. Just that he certainly didn't have "every chance". Like I said the fight was stopped with Maul overpowering Kenobi. And although Kenobi did very well in that final fight (showcasing his potential as a Jedi), it was clear Maul was the superior combatant at the time (including the final saber fight).