He's not wrong. We really have no clue how powerful Kylo is.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
You know it occurs to me, even with the new movie, how is gauging Kylo or Rey gonna be a thing? Yeah Rey is gonna train with Luke, but then where is she gonna be relative to other Force Users?The same with Kylo, yeah he'll probably fight a trained Rey but then...he's only going to go off of her as far as where his fighting abilities go. But then how would you figure out, if either combatant are on such and such level compared to others?
The same way we've always compared characters from different eras. By using feats and statements.
Originally posted by thesithmaster
But how? Ventress+Grievous feats, even in Canon, are astronomically above Kylo.
It's sketchy to try and place Kylo on that basis alone, but it's certainly possible that he is above Ventress. The comparison could be accurate to powerlevels and he could be Ventress+, or he could just be a total *****, but it's important to note that the fight people use as Kylo's upper limit to say he's shit isn't one I see Ventress replicating in the same circumstances.
It's obvious Kylo's power is vastly beyond Ventress, but it doesn't seem he has the PT-style lightsaber fighting down, which Pablo recently described as the hallmark of a true Jedi.
Perhaps in The Last Jedi we'll see more of Kylo's abilities. I know Disney is cautious to bring back that style of fighting, but the reality is that, at the moment, he just looks so unrefined.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well I'm referring to canon only here so no legends shit, but looking at how Ventress could barely stand after a blaster shot to the shoulder, I don't see her taking a bowcaster shot to the gut and performing remotely as well as Kylo did against Rey and Finn.It's sketchy to try and place Kylo on that basis alone, but it's certainly possible that he is above Ventress. The comparison could be accurate to powerlevels and he could be Ventress+, or he could just be a total *****, but it's important to note that the fight people use as Kylo's upper limit to say he's shit isn't one I see Ventress replicating in the same circumstances.
Okay. Kylo is more durable than Ventress. But what saber feats, or even Force feats does he have to compare? In Canon, Ventress matched S3 Anakin in a duel (Anakin's inferior AOTC version made Dooku work for it, and again in the TCW movie) stalemated Luminara+Ahsoka while playing around with them, fought evenly with Season 4 Savage Opress, a threat to Dooku (dueling-wise) with only one blade, and held her own against Anakin+Kenobi.
And Ventress, even when wounded AF and barely able to stand, should be able to wreck Rey and Finn. They're good, but come on...
Originally posted by thesithmaster
Okay. Kylo is more durable than Ventress. But what saber feats, or even Force feats does he have to compare? In Canon, Ventress matched S3 Anakin in a duel (Anakin's inferior AOTC version made Dooku work for it, and again in the TCW movie) stalemated Luminara+Ahsoka while playing around with them, fought evenly with Season 4 Savage Opress, a threat to Dooku (dueling-wise) with only one blade, and held her own against Anakin+Kenobi.And Ventress, even when wounded AF and barely able to stand, should be able to wreck Rey and Finn. They're good, but come on...
Well here's the thing though, I'm not definitively saying Kylo's better, I'm just saying the possibility for Kylo>Ventress exists, but that Kylo's placement is obfuscated by his lack of exposure and circumstance. There isn't definitive evidence that Kylo is better than canon Ventress, but there also isn't definitive evidence that canon Ventress is above Kylo. I'm not pushing Kylo>Ventress, I'm saying it's a possibility.
You're trying to debate me on something I'm not taking a stance on.
Originally posted by Emperordmbdurability isn't the same as skill though. For example, Savage Opress took somewhere around two dozen blaster bolts to the back and chest and was still standing (this as after he took half a dozen lightning blasts to the face btw). Not only that, but in Dark Disciple, Ventress got her skull cracked and still did well against Grievous IIRC.
I'd question if Ventress could stand with that wound.Well here's the thing though, I'm not definitively saying Kylo's better, I'm just saying the possibility for Kylo>Ventress exists, but that Kylo's placement is obfuscated by his lack of exposure and circumstance. There isn't definitive evidence that Kylo is better than canon Ventress, but there also isn't definitive evidence that canon Ventress is above Kylo. I'm not pushing Kylo>Ventress, I'm saying it's a possibility.
You're trying to debate me on something I'm not taking a stance on.