So I guess this fight was not begun with a sucker punch since they were facing:
So I guess this fight was not begun with a sucker punch since they were facing:
Did you miss what I actually said? Facing AND ready for a fight. Notice here it says he wanted to talk mostly because he got a signal and didn't know the reason or much about the alien and wanted to act as a welcome wagon. In the Hyperion fight where did it say he wanted to talk? Said the opposite. In his own words called himself cocky and that no one could beat him. Heroes were about to be killed. Also notice the distance between the two instances. With the alien he was in hands reach with an unknown force which didn't know the reasons why he was there to with Hyperion he was much further away and knew Hyperion was not there for peace
Not the same thing in the least
It doesn't even matter for this thread about a sucker punch or not, b/c most superheroes vs villains fight start this same way. Hero shows up to confront villain, villain gets the upperhand/control the fight, villain monologues, hero quickly recovers and dominates, the end. How many times have that scenario happen to Superman, Thor, Hulk, etc, almost every match.
Anyways its more impressive that BM was able to take KH best shots in a row, and still not be koed. All he needed was a moment to recover in typical superhero fashion to take his "dial to 11." I don't see how some are tying to make this a bad showing, its nothing but impressive.
A similar thing happen to Zod against a much inferior Suicide Squad, where Killer Croc's bite hurt Zod and Katanna was able to out react him. Of course he owned them in the end like he should have ,but the SS did well against Zod briefly or at least better than they should have.
The posters who are wrong here are the ones that believe either will stomp the other.
Originally posted by Supermutant
[B]It doesn't even matter for this thread about a sucker punch or not, b/c most superheroes vs villains fight start this same way. Hero shows up to confront villain, villain gets the upperhand/control the fight, villain monologues, hero quickly recovers and dominates, the end. How many times have that scenario happen to Superman, Thor, Hulk, etc, almost every match.Anyways its more impressive that BM was able to take KH best shots in a row, and still not be koed. All he needed was a moment to recover in typical superhero fashion to take his "dial to 11." I don't see how some are tying to make this a bad showing, its nothing but impressive.
/B]
Exactly my point. So following this logic it was a sucker punch and therefore omitted. We would basicslly omit 98% of comic fights. Though it wasn't a sucker punch here
Who said it was a terrible showing?
Originally posted by -K-M-
Haha wonderful. So then why did you post it? And why were you and carver gushing over it?Also once again difference there is Adam was ready to fight. Anti-man wasn't.
Why do you say I gushed over it when I made no comment on it? It's a subsequent confrontation between the two that I posted for discussion. I don't think that I've comment at all with regards to BM fighting Anti-Man.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Why do you say I gushed over it when I made no comment on it? It's a subsequent confrontation between the two that I posted for discussion. I don't think that I've comment at all with regards to BM fighting Anti-Man.
Because you posted it in the first place in support of BM. Not much discussion as Anti-Man didn't fight back he was remembering and conflicted.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
I posted it to see what would be said. Why does the notion of BM being a heavy hitter right up there with best of them disturb you so? It's undeniable that this is where Marvel is pushing him.
Please post a quote where I said that or even implied that
Originally posted by TheHulkster
You discount the Ultimate Hulk KO based on them not yet having gained their full memory. What does that have to do with anything?
Of course as there was context behind it. Good showing, but also questionable if they were their true selves. We know they didn't have all their memories. So if you don't remember who you are, what you done, what your capable of, your history with other characters that apparently wouldn't impact you? 😬 Even Reed was like this isn't my Cap and killed him.
Captain America: "Well frankly, I'm starting to question your authority here, Dr.Richards. See...I'm starting to remember things, too. About you. Did you do something to our minds, Maker?"
Maker: "What minds? When did my Captain America ever question authority?"
*Kills Captain America by rewriting reality again*
Maker was making "adjustments" with this new reality so again makes things questionable what else he changed and how much
There is no quote, but rather you ferverent dismissals of what he has done. The original Ultimates know who they are. They don't remember their deaths until later. Reed's statement only expresses surprise that Cap questions his authority. I'm not sure how this weakens any of them especially when we see Cap beating America, who should be significantly above him.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
There is no quote, but rather you ferverent dismissals of what he has done. The original Ultimates know who they are. They don't remember their deaths until later. Reed's statement only expresses surprise that Cap questions his authority. I'm not sure how this weakens any of them especially when we see Cap beating America, who should be significantly above him.
I have been adding significant context. Because I have been debating points does NOT mean I think low of BM. I on the other hand can find many quotes where I say positive things about him.
No they didn't remember many details. Such as Reed Richards. Even Captain America knew Maker manipulated their minds. It wasn't just their "death" he erased but several key things. Captain America: "Well frankly, I'm starting to question your authority here, Dr.Richards. See...I'm starting to remember things, too. About you. Did you do something to our minds, Maker?" So again if your mind is altered, memories removed how on earth does that not impact you? Same thing when people are mind controlled we will often not take that as fact how a normal fight would go. Nor do we know for a fact Maker didn't make other manipulations. hence...questionable
Originally posted by -K-M-
Concerning scans see my above post.except he never dropped Mongul easily when he was full power in their first fight. Also once again how is losing to Sinestro a low showing?
Never defeated Sentry. Also he was messed up by the negative energy
King Hyperion - clean win. However, King has some lackluster showings
Shuma - was nothing that special. Good but not amazing
Antiman- had significant context already addressed
Pagan - did he actually beat him? Honest question
Ultimate Hulk - meh! as noted the Ultimates didn't have all their memories so weren't their true selves
I had a message for this typed up last night and made a mistake and backed out of it. I was pissed. Anyways...
Sinestro have a habit of messing with his opponent during the beginning of the fight. When he decided to get serious, it was too late...he was losing power. I don't even know why you mentioned this when the point of this conversation is that Sinestro power was almost gone when he beat Mongul. That...is...TERRIBLE.
Sentry was near knocked out when he was sent to space. He had time to recover. I call that a defeat. Come on KM, we do not accept writers comments when nothing like this was mentioned in the books. It doesn't work like that.
He beat Antiman, a team buster.
He beat Pegan off panel.
Zod hasn't done a thing to justify a win here. Nothing. Cyborg under estimated him. Eradicator is depleted of power and the suicide squad...lololol. Blue Marvel actually have wins against opponents.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Still, they know themselves and each other. They remember their lives save for a few details. Why would Cap outperform MAC if he is lesser? Nothing implies less formidability and manipulation does not equate to mind control.
They knew who Reed brought back. Even interactions with that team was missing.
Again if memories are gone. Maker altered them how can you say they were the same formaility? You can't. 😬 this is not a hard concept
Originally posted by carver9
I had a message for this typed up last night and made a mistake and backed out of it. I was pissed. Anyways...Sinestro have a habit of messing with his opponent during the beginning of the fight. When he decided to get serious, it was too late...he was losing power. I don't even know why you mentioned this when the point of this conversation is that Sinestro power was almost gone when he beat Mongul. That...is...TERRIBLE.
Sentry was near knocked out when he was sent to space. He had time to recover. I call that a defeat. Come on KM, we do not accept writers comments when nothing like this was mentioned in the books. It doesn't work like that.
He beat Antiman, a team buster.
He beat Pegan off panel.
Zod hasn't done a thing to justify a win here. Nothing. Cyborg under estimated him. Eradicator is depleted of power and the suicide squad...lololol. Blue Marvel actually have wins against opponents.
Did you forget negative energy was already established impacting sentry prior to this fight? We have prior reference and a reference from writer who confirmed that was still in play. Now we want to ignore on panel evidence too? Sentry literally returned the next page. And how did BM land that punch? When sentry stopped fighting and tried to talk to him
So he wasn't serious in his first fight with mongul? Lulz. Please provide evidence of this. So sinestro still had power when he won right? Not sure why you keep harping on that.
He beat anti-man with help and context. Prove me wrong
Where did it say or how he beat pagan?