Originally posted by basilisk
OK, so no BFR or prep to make it interesting, because she probably does have the ability to BFR.
Mental attacks will also fail since she would have to remove his helmet for them to work on him and if she gets close, she dies.
she might be able to transmute the helmet too though that may be less likely than using tk to remove it. there isn't likely a reason she couldn't pull the helmet off with tk. her best bet is a simple love spell. i don't see a reason why that wouldn't work. it's not a physical attack, nor is it typical tp so his invulnerability shouldn't save him from simply bowing down and worshiping her. /shrug
i wonder if she is capable of replicating what thor did and just blocking his magic to make him vulnerable to a host of spells....
she has options. the only way she loses is if he gets a hold of her. she could stay away from him at least nearly indefinitely via intangible or teleporting.
Was the following a long-lasting and/or permanent change?
Amora is a lot more capable in physical combat than most people probably think if it was, especially considering that even at HALF power Valkyrie, which was originally Amora in disguise, managed to physically put Hulk down.
The encounter here, by the way, apparently actually left Monet dead:
At least if the following is to be believed:
that scene has always been weird and was never fully explained afaik. monet HAD died previously and been resurrected, but i don't know if amora killed her in that first scene. amora is pretty tough physically, but M did return and kick her a$$ at the end of the arc, even breaking her bones. it was a blitz, but i had the sense monet was the superior one physically the second time around. anyway, amora did retain her full power afterward--at least until the reboot. currently, i don't know how she compares with her classic self, but if she's like everyone else, there probably hasn't been much of a change. /shrug
I skimmed a few of those issues online before. If memory serves, Amora was more than merely blitzed, she was blindsided; she didn't see it coming.
I recall something similar happening to She-Hulk versus Drax, in a story where it was made explicit that She-Hulk was stronger than that version of Drax, and stronger by far. Yet a single unexpected dive bomb or similar maneuver, catching She-Hulk when she was unaware Drax was returning to the fight, knocked She-Hulk out, and may have, since this story also involved resurrection, actually killed She-Hulk.
For the 2nd, all narration leads me to believe that Enchantress was the one that killed Monet, including what Monet herself says following her resurrection.
I don't remember how she was ressurected, though. I seem to remember Gabriel helping to bring her back, but Monet has a healing factor and a LOT of unexplained phenomena involved with her physiology (Emplate, twin-substitution, Penance, potential secondary and tertiary mutations, etcetera).
Perhaps her link with Rachel helped her hold on? Come back from the threshold?
Found someone else posted an additional pic of their fight than what I earlier gave, here in the following thread:
I don't know what reboots affect what now anymore, but, for the record, the reason I was asking if Amora's restoration was permanent is because ALL other strength showings from her before her fight with Monet were implied to have been performed by her at only HALF power, because she was under a curse placed on her by Odin before then.
That would have significant implications for how a fight between her and Juggernaut would now go, if what everyone THOUGHT was her standard level of physical strength and magic ability was only 50% of where she's actually at, and demonstrates only half of what she can do:
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Though she is now best known as a hero on Marvel Comics' "Defenders" team, the Valkyrie was originally a guise of the Thor villain Enchantress:
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Was the following a long-lasting and/or permanent change?
Amora is a lot more capable in physical combat than most people probably think if it was, especially considering that even at HALF power Valkyrie, which was originally Amora in disguise, managed to physically put Hulk down.The encounter here, by the way, apparently actually left Monet dead:
Originally posted by leonidas
that scene has always been weird and was never fully explained afaik. monet HAD died previously and been resurrected, but i don't know if amora killed her in that first scene. amora is pretty tough physically, but M did return and kick her a$$ at the end of the arc, even breaking her bones. it was a blitz, but i had the sense monet was the superior one physically the second time around. anyway, amora did retain her full power afterward--at least until the reboot. currently, i don't know how she compares with her classic self, but if she's like everyone else, there probably hasn't been much of a change. /shrug
Originally posted by zopzop
Seriously? Do you not see Monet being distracted by another opponent giving Amora time to get behind her and put her in a choke hold? Just like IRL, once you've exposed your neck and are in a choke, you are PHUCKED.Monet broke Enchantress' bones in the rematch? Scans?
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=613285&pagenumber=1
We had a debate about the incident here. Suffice it to say, neither Amora nor Monet really had a complete "fair" fight. I'd advise against folks reading too much into it.
oh i def agree that neither fight was truly indicative of how a fair meeting between them might go, but in that second fight it felt to me like the author was saying monet>amora, at least on a physical level. still not sure why amora couldn't just cast a spell, even if she was hurt, but, like i said, that was just my sense of the meeting.
regardless, i don't think amora would be wanting to mix it up with juggs. nothing good is coming from that for her, nor is it really her style.
as for her apparent death: again, not convinced it happened, though the narration is certainly suggestive. there was certainly never any 'resurrection' scene at all. this is the scene when gabriel finds her:
all he does is ask her to wake up. /shrug
there is also nothing written anywhere about her dying at amora's hands so...i dunno. you'd think if she died there would be...'more' to it? she did die previously, as style's scan alludes to, but she doesn't reference amora killing her, as you'd think she would in this case. she also told gabriel amora took her down hard, not that she killed her. it's open to interpretation i suppose, but more support falls on the side of her not dying imo, so that's the side i fall on.
as for monet vs amora: i think it would be a very good fight if both knew the other was coming, but hard to see monet countering amora's magic in most cases, at least imo.
oh ffs, i hate you right now style. you posted that &^%$%$# link and based on the views being expressed there, it ALMOST seems like i'm sorta/kinda/at least on the same planet as....bav. 😐
*&^% me. i am clearly wrong in regards to everything i posted in this thread and have just as clearly utterly wtfpwned myself. 👆
Blue Area Vet usually argues a whole lot better than he did in that thread.
Amora must have used magic against Monet because Monet referred to Amora as a magic user? That would work if The Enchantress were some unknown perp to the X-Men, but nearly every hero group in Marvel U knows who she is and what she's capable of in terms of sorcery.
Most of the people in Marvel Universe DON'T often seem to consider that Amora is super-strong, however. Apparently Monet didn't, either.
Juggernaut even with his force field is susceptible to attacks Amora can replicate.
Witness an encounter with the X-Men (some scans missing) during the Claremont days:
Originally posted by leonidas
oh ffs, i hate you right now style. you posted that &^%$%$# link and based on the views being expressed there, it ALMOST seems like i'm sorta/kinda/at least on the same planet as....bav. 😐*&^% me. i am clearly wrong in regards to everything i posted in this thread and have just as clearly utterly wtfpwned myself. 👆
I've lightened my stance on it a little since then, but yeah, I definitely can't sign off on most of what BAV said.
lol he's been on ignore forever, so i was just going by what i saw quoted and, as is the norm, his reasoning made no sense. like i said, i think it could be a good match up if the 2 of them went at it full on, but amora's magic is a tough counter more often than not.
as for this fight, the only ending i can see is juggs proclaiming his undying love for amora...
The thing is though, Cyttorak clearly wants to protect his avatar from mind control and having his powers used in the service of others, hence the provision of Juggs with a protective helmet (side note: never mind the obvious design flaw of why do it through a helmet that can be removed and not something innate, that's a plot device more than anything, and may be changed in more recent appearances anywat, not sure about that one).
Now Amora's power is another type of mind control, so it's probably something Cyttorak doesn't want happening - why protect against just one form of mind control and not magical control. Cyttorak is magical after all. And Juggs power also protects him against a hell of a lot of magic attacks, though he can be affected by high end stuff. So I don't think it's a given that the love power would work. There are some characters she has said she can't directly influence, while others like Quasar had defensive mechanisms that eventually snapped him out of it. I guess success here depends on what level you think her spells are at.
