Don't Ask Your Girlfriend's Dad if You Can Marry Her Because Its Sexist

IMO it more or less boils down to an old fashioned way of asking the dad if he approves or not. The guy asking knows the dad does not actually "own" the woman. Some people actually care about the relationship with their other relatives and potential new in-laws. Certainly not me of course lol, but some.

I also would suppose it depends on how involved the father is in her life. For some people what you have is you just tend to see each other on holidays and that is it. Other families are much more involved with each other.

....aka Surt got the Daddy Issues to.. what a shock!?

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay, so I have known women that were proud to be given away by their fathers at their wedding. I have to ask: were they just brainwashed by the patriarchy?

There are women who are proud to be in arranged marriages. There are women who are proud to be in plural marriages. So what?

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay so...are you saying that DDM is not marrying into her family because he seems to be a proponent of asking the father, etc? Since you say it is because of tradition that men do not marry into a family, but obviously you seem to find these traditions sexist.

Is he forsaking his familial name and taking hers?

Why the hell would you ask parents before asking the woman you want to marry?

Essentially what I'm saying is, it's silly as hell to call it sexist because the dads no longer truly see themselves as owning their daughters. Making something out of nothing, but I do feel better now if certain people complain about what gets posted in the "Triggered" thread.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
There are women who are proud to be in arranged marriages. There are women who are proud to be in plural marriages. So what?

You didn't answer my question. Were the women I know who were proud to have this done...just brainwashed by the patriarchy?

Is he forsaking his familial name and taking hers?

I dunno, but I find your choice of wording quite interesting. To me to "forsake" someone or something carries negative connotations with it.

Originally posted by Surtur
You didn't answer my question. Were the women I know who were proud to have this done...just brainwashed by the patriarchy?

I did answer your question, you just do not like the answer. Are women who are proud to be in arranged marriages brainwashed? What about women who are proud to be in plural marriages?

Could it be that people often do not question traditions that are culturally normative? And people whose traditions you would consider unambiguously sexist would reflexively defend those traditions from criticism?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I did answer your question, you just do not like the answer. Are women who are proud to be in arranged marriages brainwashed? What about women who are proud to be in plural marriages?

Could it be that people often do not question traditions that are culturally normative? And people whose traditions you would consider unambiguously sexist would reflexively defend those traditions from criticism?

I wanted a yes or no, not excuses. I wasn't talking about arranged marriages or plural marriages lol. I gave you a specific situation and asked if they are brainwashed.

Are they? Yes or no.

He should repsect his wife by only beating other men's wives.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]....aka Surt got the Daddy Issues to.. what a shock!? [/B]

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Yeah I bet Adam don't have "Father Issues" or anything....
🤣 [/B]

Dude, you can be such a shithead, at times. 😬

Only "at times" !!??? I must be slipping.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Marriage is not sexist. Asking a parent for the hand of their adult child in marriage is sexist. Your reading comprehension is poor.

Times change.. The intent now is not what it was then.

Nowadays, people aren't literally asking for permission. They're asking for approval, as the parents come part and parcel with the union and you want to start on the right foot.

Of course, kids can do whatever they want once they're of age..

Originally posted by cdtm
Times change.. The intent now is not what it was then.

Nowadays, people aren't literally asking for permission. They're asking for approval, as the parents come part and parcel with the union and you want to start on the right foot.

Of course, kids can do whatever they want once they're of age..

Exactly, this is why I can't figure out how it sexist. It used to be sexist. It still has the potential to be, but no it is not automatically sexist.

I truly believes he feels the women who want it or are proud to have done it were brainwashed. I also get the vibe he thinks the act of a woman taking on the guys last name is also harmful or disrespectful to her own family. Which also seems to me like an old timey-ish type of attitude.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
It is sexist, because it treats women as property. See examples:

Women have agency. They are not property that can be given or taken away. They are not kept. Their families do not need assurances that they will be properly cared for. They are grown-ups and can make their own decisions. They do not need to be infantilized.

You are not marrying into her family, she is marrying into yours.

Tell that to all of the conservatives with "traditional marriages" that have a higher divorce rate than everyone else.

Their approval is neither desired, nor required. They do not have to marry you. It is not up to them.

Women have rights but this doesn't imply that they aren't social beings. Many seek advice from their parents regarding these matters.

A father invests himself in the brought-up of his girl. He feels that he needs to take care of her. This is his fatherly instinct - biology factor. He is a source of guidance for his girl. He might have a say in her life-reshaping moments.

Sexist my foot.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do you even understand the concept of a FAMILY? I suppose not.

Women have rights but this doesn't imply that they aren't social beings. Many seek advice from their parents regarding these matters.

A father invests himself in the brought-up of his girl. He feels that he needs to take care of her. This is his fatherly instinct - biology factor. He is a source of guidance for his girl. He might have a say in her life-reshaping moments.

Sexist my foot.

For a big city Liberal writer from a broken home with both parents cheating on each other openly, I can see how they'd label family norms "oppressive".

Originally posted by Surtur
I wanted a yes or no, not excuses. I wasn't talking about arranged marriages or plural marriages lol. I gave you a specific situation and asked if they are brainwashed.

Are they? Yes or no.

What you want is wholly irrelevant to me. I know you do not like my answer, because it requires you to think, and apply your same reasoning to a relevantly similar scenario, and arrive at your own conclusions. You should try it.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
What you want is wholly irrelevant to me. I know you do not like my answer, because it requires you to think, and apply your same reasoning to a relevantly similar scenario, and arrive at your own conclusions. You should try it.

But the situation isn't like an arranged marriage. But okay, you have successfully dodged the question 👆

Before you respond: Nope, that's not up for debate. If you can't give me a yes or no about the specific situation I'm asking you about, that I have asked multiple times, it's a dodge. It's irrelevant if you feel differently.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh, so your opinion, which is factually incorrect to those who follow that tradition, triumphs what families want to do?

Good.

Thanks for showing your bias.

What you liked to cut out was the reciprocal relationship. Obviously, two married people take care of each other (nice tactful edit of my post to cut that part out, bub) but in the tradition, the man needs to prove more publicly that he will take care of his wife. Why? Lots of things. But lets focus on one:

You know, pregnancy, child birth, children. You know that stuff? The stuff you forgot about? Yeeeeaaah, that stuff. Yeah, you forgot about it, didn't you?

Poor ol' PoE! Forgot about vaginas again. 🙁

I do not care what families do. Some posters did not seem to understand that these traditions could be considered sexist, and I explained why. No more, no less.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You're wrong. They do need to be taken care of. Have you ever been part of a healthy relationship? It seems like you haven't. The idea that two people take care of each other seems to escape you.

Of course, the notion that men are more likely to commit crimes and criminal violence also escapes you. Also, the fact that women get pregnant and do things like nursing seems to escape you. Yes, passing your daughter off to go live with another man (and who's to say they will move into a home that she paid for or he paid for: it doesn't matter. So go ahead and skip that argument before you try to make it) that you barely know can be scary and there are many unknowns. Trying to come up with a custom that can help, even if just placebo, assuage those concerns is helpful which is why this tradition doesn't die even in countries with horribly shitty "feminists" who are actually sexist wolves pretending to be female advocates.

Also, do you talk to...any heterosexual women who are not extremists? I mean...any at all?

Yet, single people somehow manage just fine in the world without someone to care for them. Having a partner to care for you is a great kindness, but it is not a need.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh, really? Guess I better cancel all holidays, birthdays, and celebrations with them. Guess I better stop concerning myself with their well-being. Guess I better stop sending them surprise gifts and holiday gifts through the mail. Guess I better uninvite them to the wedding. Guess I better not attend church with them when I visit. Guess I better not do chores when I stay with them. Guess I better not escort my future mother in law, at night, through shitty neighborhoods when she visits a particular part of town that has known muggers. You know, that stuff, where I make my life part of theirs and theirs part of mine.

Luckily, I have a clueless man on the internet to let me know that a woman is marrying into my family and that I am not marrying into hers. Luckily, you cleared up my confusion where where I thought we married into each other's families. Whew, thank you very much, good sir, for clearing up my ignorance! Boy, am I blessed you're around! Yippeee!!

Again, I do not care what families do. Some posters did not seem to understand the historical basis of this tradition, and I explained it. No need to get your magic undies in a twist.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Sooooo, you're trying to move the argument to a US "conservatives" vs. "liberals" debate? Nice. This trick probably works on dumber people, for sure. You might even be called clever for trying to do this.

How does that data look for devote religious people? What does it look like for people with similar education and income attainment (apples to apples)? If you want to make this argument, make your argument but make it nuanced: I'll read it and respond.

If you intend to retort with a No True Scotsman fallacy, it is better not to broadcast it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, yes, because all women, as you're trying to paint them, do not care what their parents think. They do not want to involve their parents in their life-long commitment to a man. They will make those decisions on their own. These women have no intentions to be part of their parents lives, at all.

Based on that amazing revelation of yours, too, these same women DEFINITELY will not talk to their friends about it, as well. They will not consider their friends' input, as well. Because women don't care about what anyone around them thinks. Most especially their parents! You have women completely figured out.

I should go to you more often for advice on how to interact with women! You're like...an expert! If I had talked with you sooner and gotten your opinions, why...I wouldn't even BE with a woman, right now! I'd be single! Perfect! Just what I wanted: to be single and not madly in love with a woman I deeply care about! Gosh, you're the best!

I am fairly certain there is nothing in the biblical commandment of one to leave his or her father and mother in order to be joined to his or her spouse that allows for parents to be a party to that relationship. Hence, "leave your father and mother, and be joined to your spouse."

Mormons may do things differently, but marriage is traditionally between a husband and wife; not a husband and wife, and her father, and her mother, et al. Hence, why the approval of the parents of the bride is a great kindness, but it is not required: because the parents of the bride do not have to be married to you, she does; so ultimately, it is her decision alone, not theirs.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
What you want is wholly irrelevant to me. I know you do not like my answer, because it requires you to think, and apply your same reasoning to a relevantly similar scenario, and arrive at your own conclusions. You should try it.

Translation: What you "want" is IRRELEVANT.

But what I want IS RELEVANT because... FEE FEE's!

🤣

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The tradition is from the time when women were chattel, and marriage was a transaction transferring the property of one man to another. So yeah, it is sexist.

Hey Adam have said before you dont like women hence why you are gay. So your subject matter expertise on this topic is piss poor to straight out factually wrong and bias. Feel free to move on to another one of your pet projects where you get exposed again as a massive fraud.