Originally posted by jaden101
I'm a bit skeptical. Think there might be some naive reporting going on. Their previous tests have all been relatively weak fission A-bomb tests and most of them weaker than Little Boy and Fat Man used on Japan. Making a fusion H-bomb is a significant leap in a very short time given their last fission test was less than a year ago and then tominiaturise it enough to fit on an ICBM is almost impossible.
Why are you cowtowing to the Norks now? Its not a significant leap in a very short time, they have had nukes much longer then we thought.
This is the typical North Korean attitude around here and among liberals. That they are boasting and lying, Turns out all the times they were boasting and lying came true. Why continue this discourse?
Here is some pretty accurate reporting and it appears they actually do have one and just tested it which is their most powerful test yet.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/03/asia/north-korea-nuclear-test/index.html
Originally posted by BackFire
Lol @ "Norks" abbreviation.
Great now I'm just picturing Kim Jong Un having wacky adventures under the sea:
Originally posted by Sable
Why are you cowtowing to the Norks now? Its not a significant leap in a very short time, they have had nukes much longer then we thought.This is the typical North Korean attitude around here and among liberals. That they are boasting and lying, Turns out all the times they were boasting and lying came true. Why continue this discourse?
Here is some pretty accurate reporting and it appears they actually do have one and just tested it which is their most powerful test yet.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/03/asia/north-korea-nuclear-test/index.html
Well let's look at the evidence.
Its first successful test was in 2006 and was measured at less than 1 kiloton.
Its second test was 2009 and was measured at 7-9 kilotons
Its 3rd test was 2009 and measured between 6 and 14 kilotons.
Last year they conducted a 4th test that they claimed was a hydrogen bomb thermonuclear test despite having a lesser yield than its previous fission Atomic bomb test. World nuclear weapons experts rubbished the claim.
So in less than a year we are supposed to believe they have not only perfected an entirely different and far more technically difficult nuclear weapon but also made a version small enough to be fitted to a ballistic missile.
In comparison, the US took 16 years to go from fission based atomic bombs to sufficiently small, ICBM loadable hydrogen bomb warheads with a far bigger research budget and scientific and industrial capacity.
Then you've got yield comparisons. A proper thermonuclear fusion hydrogen bomb should be into the hundreds of kilotons. The US currently can use a single missile to deliver several warheads each over 450kt Some are estimating this at 120KT but then some initially estimated the 2009 test at 40kt which was later downgraded to single digits.
I'm not saying it's impossible, just highly unlikely. More likely is it's a boosted fission bomb.
As for the lying. Well it's not like they don't have a history of it. Like Kim Jong ill inventing the hamburger. That he was the best golfer in the world. We're talking about a country who built an entire fake town on the border to pretend to the south that its residents were all happy and content.
Originally posted by Sable
It's highly probably that this is a hydrogen bomb that can be put on a warhead. The sanctions appear to do nothing because they get help from Iran, Russia and China. Oh and one of our dumb past presidents named Bill Clinton gave them $4 billion in our money which is like $20 trillion in theirs.
Due to recent events, this is what I say:
Originally posted by Sable
It's highly probably that this is a hydrogen bomb that can be put on a warhead. The sanctions appear to do nothing because they get help from Iran, Russia and China. Oh and one of our dumb past presidents named Bill Clinton gave them $4 billion in our money which is like $20 trillion in theirs.
They got most of their technology from Pakistan.
Originally posted by Surtur
Jaden how do you think Trump should handle this?
There's a few ways to end the continuing escalations in Korea.
1 is you try to decapitate the leadership and deal with what's left but risks South Korea and other friendly states getting hammered and potentially millions of people getting killed in some futile last stand.
Another is to leverage the north away from its allies which has been attempted to a small degree. It might work as a precursor to military action that has less of a chance of a nuclear escalation with China or Russia as you will effectively ended their support of the north. Kim Jong seems to be doing a good job of increasingly pissing off his closest allies as he contradicts them the way Trump contradicts his spokespeople. I don't think there's enough time for this now.
You could bring technology to bear the way the US and Israel used to cripple Natanz in Iran using the Stuxnet virus. Effectively using sabotage although this would be vastly more difficult to do to NK than it would to the much more connected and much less espionage resistant Iran. Couple this with a bombardment of positive propaganda via powerful broadcasting into NK via every medium available of how great everyone else around the world has it. You'd be relying on his people growing balls though which isn't likely and would need a long term plan which there probably isn't time for.
Another is to begin a process that brings north Korea to the UN and starts the process of normalisation of relations between the north and south and possible reunification. In an ideal world this is what you'd go for. He wouldn't be able to resist a huge international summit just for him. This is what all his "look at me, look at me" bullshit is all about anyway. He wants to be seen to have bent the west to his will. Let him save face if it means an end to the increasing nonsense.
Sanctions are generally a waste of time. Look at their effectiveness. Did they remove Saddam? Castro?, Khamenei?, Al Assad?, Ghadaffi? Chavez? Do the opposite. Deal with him. Trade with him to allow in the Mcdonalds and the Starbucks and then the banks and mining companies. Then they'll erode his power and take control like they do everywhere else.
Originally posted by jaden101
They got most of their technology from Pakistan.
Yes but they sell to Iran giving them economic support.
https://www.cfr.org/interview/north-korea-iran-nuclear-cooperation
Originally posted by Sable
Yes but they sell to Iran giving them economic support.https://www.cfr.org/interview/north-korea-iran-nuclear-cooperation
They export to quite a few countries both overtly and covertly. Including the US. Unless you're specifically meaning nuclear technology in which Pakistan had more to contribute to both their nuclear programmes than they did with each others.
Originally posted by jaden101This is kind of a vague description for something that you would call an "option." In fact, I'd argue what you just described is not an option at all, but rather more of an end goal.How exactly would you go about bringing North Korea to the UN and starting the process of reunification?Another is to begin a process that brings north Korea to the UN and starts the process of normalisation of relations between the north and south and possible reunification. In an ideal world this is what you'd go for. He wouldn't be able to resist a huge international summit just for him. This is what all his "look at me, look at me" bullshit is all about anyway. He wants to be seen to have bent the west to his will. Let him save face if it means an end to the increasing nonsense.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
This is kind of a vague description for something that you would call an "option." In fact, I'd argue what you just described is not an option at all, but rather more of an end goal.How exactly would you go about bringing North Korea to the UN and starting the process of reunification?
By asking them.