Rockydonovang
freedom fighter
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Where does it state rage amp was needed? It flat out says Luke is a match for Vader.
Because we have multiple indications that Vader and Luke are
not equals.
We have Luke's own admission:
So this is how it would have been, if Vader had tried to kill me. Who had Luke been kidding? Teneniel had been right, Luke was no warrior. Ben, Luke thought. I failed you. I’ve failed you all. And suddenly there was a wave of pain, and Luke tried to remember who he’d just been talking to, tried to think of a name, someone he could call for help, but his mind was numb, empty, like the vast deserts of Tatooine lying naked beneath setting suns.
We have Vader's inferior calling Luke sh!t:
Gethzerion nodded thoughtfully. “Pardon me if I say that I don’t find you to be very impressive, young Jedi. It’s a shame that you must die before you have a chance to witness how I make your friends writhe.”
We have Vader's inferior proving Luke's sh!t:
She pointed a finger at Luke, and before Luke even recognized her evil intent, a ripple of Force slammed into him. White lights exploded behind his eyes, and the right side of his face felt as if it had been smashed by a hammer. His left arm and right leg crumpled under their unbearable weight, and he dropped to the ground on one knee, stunned. All the noise and blaster fire and screams of pain died away, became a distant roaring. Gethzerion pointed at him again, twitched her finger, and his eyes lost focus. He felt the hammer blow to his left temple, dropped to his sides and rolled over to his back, grasping. Luke stared up at the sky, watching streams of rocks hurtling above him—some propelled by the Force, others hurled by rancors._Time seemed to slow. His head throbbed, pounding to the same rhythm as the beating of his heart. His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion's spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield.
Prior to Luke fighting more aggressively, Vader is doing well enough against Luke that he's fcking day dreaming:
"For the first time, the thought entered Vader's consciousness that his son might best him. He was astounded by the strength Luke had acquired since their last duel, in the Cloud City - not to mention the boy's timing, which was honed to a thought's-breadth. This was an unexpected circumstance. Unexpected and unwelcome. Vader felt humiliation crawling in on the tail of his first reaction, which was surprise, and his second, which was fear. And then the edge of the humiliation curled up, to reveal bald anger. And now he wanted revenge." - Return of the Jedi Novel.
And we later learn Vader's been "tolerating" Luke this entire time:
This accusation really made Vader angry. He could tolerate much from this insolent child, but this was insufferable. He must teach his boy a lesson he would not forget.
Not to mention that the portion that was underlined was a significant portion of the fight. Hence, if Luke is only matching Vader in quotes you say are referring to the whole of the fight, this would indicate without the portion in question, Luke was losing.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I provided like 7 sources and not one of them mentioned any sort of amp, interesting...You think because he got a rage amp mid fight he wasn't a match for Vader beforehand?
Uh, bro, more than one of the quotes you're citing explicitly refer to the part of the fight my quote is referring to.I'll repeat, the script quote refers to the part of the fight where Luke is amped:
[QUOTE]Luke and Vader are engaged in a man-to-man duel of lightsabers even more vicious then the battle on Bespin. But the young Jedi has grown stronger in the interim, and now the advantage shifts to him. Vader is forced back, losing his balance, and is knocked down the stairs. Luke stands at the top of the stairs, ready to attack..
In fact this quotes the advantage shifted to Luke meaning the advantage was originally with Vader.
The novelization quote comes directly after the quoted portion of the fight.You excluded the comic quote that says Luke >= Vader which again is on the pages that show the part of the fight where Luke is enraged:
[QUOTE]https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-5397085
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Luke was also said to be a challange for ESB Vader and then he grew significantly more powerful up to RotJ.
This proves nothing unless you can prove Luke enough to match Vader without drawing from the darkside.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Also Luke thinks Ben > Sidious, so I wouldn't take him too seriously.
Are you trying to argue that if one quote from a character is false, that means a totally unrelated and uncontradicted quote is also wrong? 😕
You realize that this logic can be used to invalidate quotes by virtually any major character? Kenobi thought himself to be inferior to someone who almost got their heart crushed by an injured Ventress, does this now render Kenobi's admission Anakin was better than him, or the hype he gives Fisto invalid?
Dooku thought that he was greater than Yoda. Does this now mean Dooku recognizing Kenobi and Anakin as the best masters of their forms he's ever met invalid? Does this mean Dooku's assertion that Grevious is >Ventress is pointless?
That someone get's something wrong does not prove they will get everything wrong.
Luke's assertion remains uncontradicted when we consider the context at play and hence is valid for use. Not to mention that the quotes suggests that the holistic intent here is that an unconflicted Vader would demolish Luke.
Regardless this isn't even needed. There's plenty of evidence suggesting that until Luke was drawing on the darkside, he was not fighting Vader as an equal.
In legends, ROTJ Luke is not = Vader