Valkorion vs Darth Sidious

Originally posted by AncientPower
LMAO.

Nothing supports that but massive stretching. Though here's the problem, you talk about galaxy scale effects and yet those who are insignificant next to Tenebrae had the power to terraform planets and turn over a trillion people incurably insane, passively.

😐

So your rebuttal to Palpatine shrouding a galaxy...is others affecting planets? Wut?

All of Vitiate's esoteric rituals that he expended "great energy" on over the course of a thousand years created effects that were minuscule next to Palpatine appearing briefly as a hologram lmfao.

Your argument is solely based on an absence of evidence argument.

*Proceeds to brag about 10 year old Tenebrae killing his parents with the Force while Palpatine was hiding his powers* You said something about absence of evidence?

Palpatine was a galaxy-wide nexus. Vitiate wasn't.

Palpatine's presence warranted direct intervention from the Force. Vitiate's didn't.

Palpatine in a month of meditating on an island shifted the balance of the Force to the dark side against the collective might of the entire Jedi Order. Vitiate couldn't do that, and indeed throughout TOR the balance of the Force was constantly fluctuating between light and dark.

Palpatine is clearly superior by mid-Plagueis novel, let alone RotS, lmao.

I'm making genuine in-combat feats arguments that indicate a level of power for ten year old Tenebrae that lesser-to-mid tier Banite Sith wouldn't accomplish.

I love how you ignore the part where Dramath was also able to hurt Valkorion in the same way he could hurt Vaylin and co.

The level of sheer scaling that Tenebrae gets AT TEN YEARS OLD, over city busters and people with galaxy-wide concealment feats, is actually so beyond ridiculous that it's as insurmountable as his power is described to be.

I'm much more impressed with 17 year old Palpatine shielding himself from Plagueis's TP.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
😐

So your rebuttal to Palpatine shrouding a galaxy...is others affecting planets? Wut?

All of Vitiate's esoteric rituals that he expended "great energy" on over the course of a thousand years created effects that were minuscule next to Palpatine appearing briefly as a hologram lmfao.

*Proceeds to brag about 10 year old Tenebrae killing his parents with the Force while Palpatine was hiding his powers* You said something about absence of evidence?

Palpatine was a galaxy-wide nexus. Vitiate wasn't.

Palpatine's presence warranted direct intervention from the Force. Vitiate's didn't.

Palpatine in a month of meditating on an island shifted the balance of the Force to the dark side against the collective might of the entire Jedi Order. Vitiate couldn't do that, and indeed throughout TOR the balance of the Force was constantly fluctuating between light and dark.

Palpatine is clearly superior by mid-Plagueis novel, let alone RotS, lmao.

The First Son with a miniscule fraction of the Emperor's power was concealing himself and hundreds of Children of the Emperor from Jedi actively searching to uncover them. When the First Son died, the dark side was literally stated to be screaming with the power of the other Children. This was 'galaxy-wide' too.

Multiple planets across the galaxy, at the same time, but Coruscant's the most impressive.

But I'd appreciate it if you would stop trying to equate what Plagueis and Sidious combined into a single entity after months of intense meditation channeling their full power with what they can individually do. Thanks. 👆

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I love how you ignore the part where Dramath was also able to hurt Valkorion in the same way he could hurt Vaylin and co.

I love how you think Dramath launching an all-out suicide attack on Valkorion and merely damaging his armor, is impressive.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'm much more impressed with 17 year old Palpatine shielding himself from Plagueis's TP.

Yeah, pretty impressive for a seventeen year old who'd already began harnessing his powers. Totally comparable to a ten year old who'd barely started touching his power in the last few years.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Tenebrae @ 10 >> Dramath ~ Arcann

And of course, we know Arcann was capable of deflecting Valkorion's storm for a considerable amount of time. So Tenebrae @ 10 >/~ Valk > Dramath ~ Arcann. What I'm getting from this is that Vitiate literally didn't progress in power since he was 10. Good show, good show.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The First Son with a miniscule fraction of the Emperor's power was concealing himself and hundreds of Children of the Emperor from Jedi actively searching to uncover them.

So...trainee Zannah tier? Not sure how hiding a few hundred people compares to distorting the abilities of ten thousand Jedi including Yoda and Mace Windu.

When the First Son died, the dark side was literally stated to be screaming with the power of the other Children. This was 'galaxy-wide' too.

lolwut, that doesn't compare to Sidious's presence literally being a galaxy-wide nexus. Not all "galaxy-wide" feats are created equal, you know. Valkorion has never matched Palpatine in this category, despite having more time, more prep, and more nexuses.

Multiple planets across the galaxy, at the same time, but Coruscant's the most impressive.

*yawn* Not Palpatine tier. See above.

But I'd appreciate it if you would stop trying to equate what Plagueis and Sidious combined into a single entity after months of intense meditation channeling their full power with what they can individually do. Thanks. 👆

Given that Palpatine alone does even more than that by his sheer presence by the chronological end of the Plagueis novel, I think it's fine. But nice going trying to lowball it because he does "intense meditation" for a month while allowing Valkorion's feats done with rituals and prep on nexuses over hundreds of years.

I love how you think Dramath launching an all-out suicide attack on Valkorion and merely damaging his armor, is impressive.

Given that Galen Marek's all-out suicide attack on Palpatine doesn't even phase him or dirty his robes, it really is.

Yeah, pretty impressive for a seventeen year old who'd already began harnessing his powers. Totally comparable to a ten year old who'd barely started touching his power in the last few years.

Lol so you're welcome to explain why a less impressive feat as a 10 year old is more or less potent than a far more impressive feat as a 17 year old right after you were talking about absence of evidence and all.

Since we've clearly established that Palpatine has greater cosmic feats, you're welcome to now explain where Valkorion makes up for this against Sidious:
[list]
[*]bending lightsaber blades
[*]defeating Grandmaster Yoda who was ragdolling several hundred meter long droid transport ships
[*]burying a 17 km long super star destroyer in the middle of Coruscant while mind-wiping all witnesses
[/list]

*sighs*

AP's confusing an absence of evidence as an excuse not to meet the burden of proof.

Stop responding to AP, Ell. Jesus Christ. facepalm

Also, the Lusankya is 19 km long.

Valkorion wasn't even concerned with the Jedi to make use of galaxy-wide rituals and stuff like that. He had other goals. Also, Valkorion has the power of an entire planet in him. It's obviously that TK'ing things like Lusankya wouldn't be a problem to him. Also the Lusankya feat doesn't mean he used TK. There is just a source that states Palpatine hid it by using his dark side powers(ergo, Mind Probe)

On top of that, those lightning storms on Dromund Kaas are continously manifesting. And Vitiate had no intention to create them with his experiments: they were just side-effects. Also, they are planetary-wide, not only appearing on some portions of the planet. When the First Son died with the dark side literally screaming(it was due to his mere 'death', there was no intense meditation or some sort of Sith rituals)
First Son's death would be similar to Darth Plagueis' depiction of his death(if you take 'to shake the stars themselves' literally)

Originally posted by The Ellimist
So...trainee Zannah tier? Not sure how hiding a few hundred people compares to distorting the abilities of ten thousand Jedi including Yoda and Mace Windu.

I've proven that Zannah was actually struggling to do the same for herself for a few hours, at best. But instead of actually replying to the post, you continued with 'but galaxy feats!"

Also, dark Revan's mere existence causing the cosmic Force to exist everywhere and nowhere as a persistent cyst in the fabric of the galaxy, causing the Force to utterly shit itself and given Force visions to everyone and their grandma to prevent his continued growth in power and plan for Yavin IV, is very much comparable.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
lolwut, that doesn't compare to Sidious's presence literally being a galaxy-wide [b]nexus. Not all "galaxy-wide" feats are created equal, you know. Valkorion has never matched Palpatine in this category, despite having more time, more prep, and more nexuses.[/B]

Valkorion's distant inferiors have achieved similar feats, actually. Not that Valkorion, who exists as an embodiment of the void of annihilation that destroyed the Force in and all life of the planet of Nathema, which is the non-existence of the Force, is going to positively effect the dark side in any way. Much like Nihilus, he's an aberration of the dark side that only depletes it's energy.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
*yawn* Not Palpatine tier. See above.

Palpatine has never caused a planet to turn into a hellacious dark side world passively. Plagueis comes kinda close, but actual terraforming of a world? Nah.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Given that Palpatine alone does even more than that by his sheer presence by the chronological end of the Plagueis novel, I think it's fine. But nice going trying to lowball it because he does "intense meditation" for a month while allowing Valkorion's feats done with rituals and prep on nexuses over hundreds of years.

Er, not really.

I love how you think planning something and actual prep are the same thing. I guess the entire Banite line had massive prep. 😂

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Given that Galen Marek's all-out suicide attack on Palpatine doesn't even phase him or dirty his robes, it really is.

I like how you have to revert to comparing TFU Sheev with Valkorion's spirit. Who was getting a dent in his armor.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lol so you're welcome to explain why a less impressive feat as a 10 year old is more or less potent than a far more impressive feat as a 17 year old right after you were talking about absence of evidence and all.

How exactly is overpowering, dominating the mind of, stripping the Force of, and rending the spirit of an evidently extremely powerful Force user, comparable to resisting telepathy? Fvcking hell.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Since we've clearly established that Palpatine has greater cosmic feats.

😂

Originally posted by The Ellimist
You're welcome to now explain where Valkorion makes up for this against Sidious:

I'm sure these will all be actual combat feats.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
[list]
[*]bending lightsaber blades
[*]defeating Grandmaster Yoda who was ragdolling several hundred meter long droid transport ships
[*]burying a 17 km long super star destroyer in the middle of Coruscant while mind-wiping all witnesses
[/list]

1.This isn't impressive, when the First Son's telekinesis destroyed Barsen'thor's lightsaber. In fact Revan dismisses the idea of using a lightsaber at all to deflect Vitiate's lightning and goes for Tutaminis.
2.I'll take simultaneously suppressing the incredible powers of Vaylin, dominating the Dread Masters, dominating the First Son, controlling hundreds of his extremely powerful Children, breaking the power of Revan, stalemating Sel-Makor; another world terraforming dark side entity, dominating the four most powerful Jedi in the galaxy 'easily', and surviving physical death. Then still having the power to fuel a galactic destruction scale ritual whilst only requiring the aid of billions of deaths as opposed to the aid of Darth Plagueis; as confirmed by Hall Hood, whilst managing everything I just said at the same time.
3.Probably not that far above Nihilus, tbh. Who is evidently beneath Post-Nathema ritual Vitiate.

Originally posted by MythLord
And of course, we know Arcann was capable of deflecting Valkorion's storm for a considerable amount of time. So Tenebrae @ 10 >/~ Valk > Dramath ~ Arcann. What I'm getting from this is that Vitiate literally didn't progress in power since he was 10. Good show, good show.

The spirit of Valkorion, who is launching attacks out of an inadequate host, with the most immediate of attacks. That's what you meant to say, right? Because as soon as he ramps up the power of his lightning, he blasts Arcann into unconsciousness.

AP, no source stating that post-Nathema>Nihilus. Stop counterfeiting.

Meetra literally can't fathom his power after defeating Nihilus, kek.

She only makes a statement relative to Vitiate's own pre-Nathema power.
Nihilus ate more planets, by the way. But let's forget that to keep the children happy.

What the fvck are you talking about?

Don't you talk about that line in the Revan novel when Meetra states her point of view that the Ritual of Nathema made Vitiate more powerful than ever?

Originally posted by ILS
Round 1: RotS Sidious

Round 2: Dark Empire Sidious

AAaaaaAAAaaaAaaand go.

Round 2: DE Sidious sh1tstomps.

😆

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Don't you talk about that line in the Revan novel when Meetra states her point of view that the Ritual of Nathema made Vitiate more powerful than ever?

Meetra says it makes Vitiate more powerful than she can imagine, not more powerful than ever.

Yes. Thank you for that. It's still a statement relative to Vitiate's own power. And it's not like Meetra witnessed Nihilus' full-fed condition.

Yet she clearly senses Nihilus' full power at Telos IV.