Legolas (no bow) vs Oberyn and the Mountain

Originally posted by KingD19
YouTube video
Start at 17 seconds. This video shows Legolas casually strolling through a group of Orcs, dodging, blocking, and countering every single time they attack him. He's even using his bow and arrow from inches away while actively fighting.

He's not getting touched by the GoT guys, and you're a fanboy to the extreme if you give them the win. Well you are a fanboy to the extreme but yeah. Legolas wins as we see he is very capable with those knives.

First of all he has no bow.

Secondly, Stupid orcs with poor fighting skills and no proper armor don't give Legolas a nice record LoTR fanboy.

I gave myself the bother of looking at your video. He used sword, but relied on his Bow several times. This means he is more of a bowman than a swordsman.

He won't be as excellent with sword as with bow.

If i was a fanboy i would give Oberyn and Moutain a win. However i know Legolas would DEFINETLY WIN against them should Oberyn have no Venom.

But since he does, that changes the panorama.

But since you are another LoTR Fanboy, you just don't think clearly. Don'w worry, i have experience with guys like you 😉 😉 😉

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Make no mistake, the only one insulting here is you. Don't get angry if i don't respond back.

I have given you strong points, that you can't cope with them that is no longer my issue.

I never insulted you. You went ahead, put words in my mouth, and misinterpreted what I said to such a degree as to completely warp it, thus you insulted me directly, and you got pissy because I said I cannot take you seriously after that. So nope, don't try that shit again and pin the blame on me.

If your points had any strength of proof at all I wouldn't be arguing with you. Fact is, every point you've ever had on this or any forum has been made of fiberglass and balanced on a f**king egg. And every one you've ever had, broke like a rotten egg thus far.

Originally posted by KingD19
Impediment shouldn't have to change any of the rules

Guess what FANBOY!! I went and did some research!!!!!!!

Impediment:

The MVF Golden Rule:

What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!

Impediment has to change nothing, the rule is clear. That means that as long as it doesn't CONTRADICT what is seen on screen then IT DOESN'T BREAK ANY RULE!

HAHAHAHAHA! So i guess after all, Oberyn does get his background history!!

So FANBOY, would you do us all a favor and let the man have a proper conversation. (by that i mean don't interupt to bring stupidity)

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I never insulted you. You went ahead, put words in my mouth, and misinterpreted what I said to such a degree as to completely warp it, thus you insulted me directly, and you got pissy because I said I cannot take you seriously after that. So nope, don't try that shit again and pin the blame on me.

If your points had any strength of proof at all I wouldn't be arguing with you. Fact is, every point you've ever had on this or any forum has been made of fiberglass and balanced on a f**king egg. And every one you've ever had, broke like a rotten egg thus far.

You did. I clearly insulted me.

A direct insult? Lol, sorry if you have misinterpreted me, but i haven't insulted you.

I haven't put words in your mouth, i clearly quoted what you said.

Again, you did insult me, if you "think" i insulted you then i offer you an apology.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You did. I clearly insulted me.

A direct insult? Lol, sorry if you have misinterpreted me, but i haven't insulted you.

I haven't put words in your mouth, i clearly quoted what you said.

Again, you did insult me, if you "think" i insulted you then i offer you an apology.

You.... insulted... yourself? Did I read that right?

I believe the words you attributed to me were "The Orcs are the best evarz!" or something to to that effect, which was bullshit as I never said that, so yes, you just lied again.

And you did, by putting words in my mouth I never said, and failing to read or counter a single thing I said or provided evidence for.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Guess what FANBOY!! I went and did some research!!!!!!!

Impediment:

Impediment has to change nothing, the rule is clear. That means that as long as it doesn't CONTRADICT what is seen on screen then IT DOESN'T BREAK ANY RULE!

HAHAHAHAHA! So i guess after all, Oberyn does get his background history!!

So FANBOY, would you do us all a favor and let the man have a proper conversation. (by that i mean don't interupt to bring stupidity)

You know, you really should make sure you understand these rules before adopting this kind of attitude towards other posters. The MvF contradiction rule applies when a character has also appeared in other visual media (such as TV shows) and have feats that contradict what is shown in their movie appearances. Books/novelisations etc. are not canon in the MvF. Imp made a very specific post about this not too long ago. Hell, even direct tie-in comics (like the MCU and Clone Wars tie-in comics, which are officially canon) aren't usable in MvF anymore.

If you don't want to accept my word for it, ask Imp yourself. He will tell you that books are not usable in MvF. Not for GoT, or anything else for that matter.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You.... insulted... yourself? Did I read that right?

I believe the words you attributed to me were "The Orcs are the best evarz!" or something to to that effect, which was bullshit as I never said that, so yes, you just lied again.

And you did, by putting words in my mouth I never said, and failing to read or counter a single thing I said or provided evidence for.

You did. I miss type it sorry.

It was angeneral example. It was just an example of how your reply looks and what you should avoid doing. I gave you your actual words later on. So that isnt an insult. At least not to my eyes.

It was an example. Now, i cant say the same about your actual words.

You directly insulted me. That is certain.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You know, you really should make sure you understand these rules before adopting this kind of attitude towards other posters. The MvF contradiction rule applies when a character has also appeared in other visual media (such as TV shows) and have feats that contradict what is shown in their movie appearances. Books/novelisations etc. are not canon in the MvF. Imp made a very specific post about this not too long ago. Hell, even direct tie-in comics (like the MCU and Clone Wars tie-in comics, which are officially canon) aren't usable in MvF anymore.

If you don't want to accept my word for it, ask Imp yourself. He will tell you that books are not usable in MvF. Not for GoT, or anything else for that matter.

No. The rule says that if the abilities on the book contradict those on the screen, then it isnt valid.

The rule is plain and simple, otherwise Impediment has to fix the words in it.

I dont see an issue with a character having a background history that doesnt contradict that on screen to be illegal.

In my opinion well.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You did. I miss type it sorry.

It was angeneral example. It was just an example of how your reply looks and what you should avoid doing. I gave you your actual words later on. So that isnt an insult. At least not to my eyes.

It was an example. Now, i cant say the same about your actual words.

You directly insulted me. That is certain.

Except it wasn't an example of anything I said ever. You also confuse me and Quan... Which is nothing less than an insult. Quan and I are very different. And he and I have had wars for YEARS. You insult me by not replying to my points, and instead repeat yourself ad nauseum, that IS insulting. Calling me a fanatic is INSULTING. Misquoting my words is INSULTING. You are 18, and you have been here for a year, there is no excuse for your behaviors.

You can't even quote me directly calling you anything with malicious intent. You say things, but like everything, you don't provide citation. The only times you've provided quotes so far out of context that it is warped beyond belief.

No more. I don't have to justify myself to you any further than that. I gave you all the chances you ever could need, and my patience for your babies first steps at debating reasonably is not infinite.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No. The rule says that if the abilities on the book contradict those on the screen, then it isnt valid.

The rule is plain and simple, otherwise Impediment has to fix the words in it.

I dont see an issue with a character having a background history that doesnt contradict that on screen to be illegal.

In my opinion well.

No, the rules are perfectly clear, as all the other posters in the MvF are perfectly aware of how things work. This is MvF. If you want to have discussions that also include the books, we have Foreign Cinema for that. The rule you literally quoted had "movie feats only" in caps at the end.

What you have or don't have issues with is irrelevant. Again, don't take my word for it. We can ask someone to get Imp in here and you can ask him yourself. But he will tell you what everyone else has already. Feats from the books are not usable for debates in this subforum.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Except it wasn't an example of anything I said ever. You also confuse me and Quan... Which is nothing less than an insult. Quan and I are very different. And he and I have had wars for YEARS. You insult me by not replying to my points, and instead repeat yourself ad nauseum, that IS insulting. Calling me a fanatic is INSULTING. Misquoting my words is INSULTING. You are 18, and you have been here for a year, there is no excuse for your behaviors.

You can't even quote me directly calling you anything with malicious intent. You say things, but like everything, you don't provide citation. The only times you've provided quotes so far out of context that it is warped beyond belief.

No more. I don't have to justify myself to you any further than that. I gave you all the chances you ever could need, and my patience for your babies first steps at debating reasonably is not infinite.

Do you realize that you are just swimming deeper into the dung right?

An example of something you clearly said in other words. Do you want me to quote you again?

I insult you by saying you are similar to Quanchi!? Now you are insulting Quanchi, as if bring similar to him is something bad. You know what, i regret my words, at least Quanchi isnt an abusive guy.

Sorry little flower, if your points arent strong enough to cope against mine.

I dont give a shit about your record. Nor does it make you a better person. All the contrary, so much years in debate and you still behave like a newbie? You should be ashamed!

Does age even matter here? Lets say am 18, does that matter? Does that make a difference? If you are older than me, which i think you are, IT SHOULD BE YOU giving the example here, not behaving like a child cursing and insulting you. SHAME ON YOU!

I dont provide citation! Give me an instance and ill give you your damn citation!

I considered you a formal mature debater, i realize you are just another abusive childish debater who takes things personal and decides to curse and insult when hr is frustrated!

I apologize if you ever felt insulted! At least i got the balls to say sorry!

So many years in debates and you behave like that!? Should be ashamed.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Do you realize that you are just swimming deeper into the dung right?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
An example of something you clearly said in other words. Do you want me to quote you again?

Please do. You've already been exposed several times as a person who does not tell the truth. Nibectus and I both exposed you for that.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I insult you by saying you are similar to Quanchi!? Now you are insulting Quanchi, as if bring similar to him is something bad. You know what, i regret my words, at least Quanchi isnt an abusive guy.

No, Quan would say the same thing I am. As in we are two very different people, AND I don't often find myself agreeing with his opinion. Have a look at the dozen or so Khan threads for example, or the dozen or so Voldemort threads. Or any Azog thread before you appeared. But you won't, because you are more interested in holding a grudge and being obstinant with me instead of learning things.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Sorry little flower, if your points arent strong enough to cope against mine.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I dont give a shit about your record. Nor does it make you a better person. All the contrary, so much years in debate and you still behave like a newbie? You should be ashamed!

And I could not give a thimble full of liquid shit about your opinions and how much you think either glossing over pertinent facts, or outright ignoring arguments will get you in these debates, because as I said, thus far, you have not shown any reasonable sound judgement, you havn't demonstrated workable logic that cannot be torn to absolute pieces, and you have not once ever shown evidence that you havn't butchered in a blender to suit yourself.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Does age even matter here? Lets say am 18, does that matter? Does that make a difference? If you are older than me, which i think you are, IT SHOULD BE YOU giving the example here, not behaving like a child cursing and insulting you. SHAME ON YOU!

Except I'm not. You got caught out lying and failing to answer points. I'm not insulting you by telling you the truth. Unless you really are delicate and sensitive to being told you are wrong, in which case I cannot help you.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I dont provide citation! Give me an instance and ill give you your damn citation!

Oh I dunno, hows about every single point you've ever tried to raise? Hows about every point of others you've conveniently ignored?

Lets start with some of the latest ones, for simplicities sake, Oberyn's poisons. You claimed he would use something other than what he has been shown to use, and that he has cupboards and wardrobes full of different poisons. You never cited any evidence of these and merely went with the broken logic that you THINK he would do it.

Here's the problem. "Maybes, mights, I thinks..." are not evidence. That would not fly in any legitimate debate. You handing advantages not demonstrated would never ever fly. We are dealing with hypothetical matchups, but we try to bring as much evidence of capability as we can, and that requires demonstrated feats and abilities, not ones we attribute out of personal gratification. When I say Legolas has the speed skill strength and experience edges over the team of The Mountain the Hound and Jaime, I say this with the citation that Legolas is in fact at least 5000 years old, and has not only bullet timed up a collapsing bridge, he's fought off waves of orcs solo, has tangled with trolls which are literal giants, he brought down a Mumakil alone.... these are feats no human in Game of thrones can match. Not even Baristan the Bold could match that. And I've read the extended books, so I know the history and lore of both series.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I considered you a formal mature debater, i realize you are just another abusive childish debater who takes things personal and decides to curse and insult when hr is frustrated!

No, I just get frustrated after 2 weeks of circular logic from you, and I realized you have learned nothing. I would suggest you do not return to Spacebattles at all, because bad faith debating like you espouse is punished by the rules there, which are rigorously enforced. If I cannot take you seriously anymore, then I am at least going to take as much of the piss as I can, because watching you do an 18 vehicle pileup on a railway is going to swiftly become tragic.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I apologize if you ever felt insulted! At least i got the balls to say sorry!

The problem there is, your apology is not genuine as it implies that you are still correct in what you do.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
So many years in debates and you behave like that!? Should be ashamed.

So says the guy who still can't string together 2 complete sentences, nevermind form a coherent argument.

I am trying.... Real hard.... to help here. You do not make it easy when you suddenly turn on me, ignore my points, and completely misinterpret my words to better suit yourself. But go ahead, call me a fanatic or a terrorist or whatever it is you think I am. I, and EVERY other veteran of these boards have had enough, and most will likely either simply ignore you, or perhaps will treat you as the class clown who drinks the cool-aid out of a jesters boot. In either case, I warned you this would happen, and you would not listen.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Please do. You've already been exposed several times as a person who does not tell the truth. Nibectus and I both exposed you for that.

No, Quan would say the same thing I am. As in we are two very different people, AND I don't often find myself agreeing with his opinion. Have a look at the dozen or so Khan threads for example, or the dozen or so Voldemort threads. Oj8r any Azog thread before you appeared. But you won't, because you are more interested in holding a grudge and being obstinant with me instead of learning things.

And I could not give a thimble full of liquid shit about your opinions and how much you think either glossing over pertinent facts, or outright ignoring arguments will get you in these debates, because as I said, thus far, you have not shown any reasonable sound judgement, you havn't demonstrated workable logic that cannot be torn to absolute pieces, and you have not once ever shown evidence that you havn't butchered in a blender to suit yourself.

Except I'm not. You got caught out lying and failing to answer points. I'm not insulting you by telling you the truth. Unless you really are delicate and sensitive to being told you are wrong, in which case I cannot help you.

Oh I dunno, hows about every single point you've ever tried to raise? Hows about every point of others you've conveniently ignored?

Lets start with some of the latest ones, for simplicities sake, Oberyn's poisons. You claimed he would use something other than what he has been shown to use, and that he has cupboards and wardrobes full of different poisons. You never cited any evidence of these and merely went with the broken logic that you THINK he would do it.

Here's the problem. "Maybes, mights, I thinks..." are not evidence. That would not fly in any legitimate debate. You handing advantages not demonstrated would never ever fly. We are dealing with hypothetical matchups, but we try to bring as much evidence of capability as we can, and that requires demonstrated feats and abilities, not ones we attribute out of personal gratification. When I say Legolas has the speed skill strength and experience edges over the team of The Mountain the Hound and Jaime, I say this with the citation that Legolas is in fact at least 5000 years old, and has not only bullet timed up a collapsing bridge, he's fought off waves of orcs solo, has tangled with trolls which are literal giants, he brought down a Mumakil alone.... these are feats no human in Game of thrones can match. Not even Baristan the Bold could match that. And I've read the extended books, so I know the history and lore of both series.

No, I just get frustrated after 2 weeks of circular logic from you, and I realized you have learned nothing. I would suggest you do not return to Spacebattles at all, because bad faith debating like you espouse is punished by the rules there, which are rigorously enforced. If I cannot take you seriously anymore, then I am at least going to take as much of the piss as iI can, because watching you do an 18 vehicle pileup on a railway is going to swiftly become tragic.

The problem there is, your apology is not genuine as it implies that you are still correct in what you do.

So says the guy who still can't string together 2 complete sentences, nevermind form a coherent argument.

I am trying.... Real hard.... to help here. You do not make it easy when you suddenly turn on me, ignore my points, and completely misinterpret my words to better suit yourself. But go ahead, call me a fanatic or a terrorist or whatever it is you think I am. I, and EVERY other veteran of these boards have had enough, and most will likely either simply ignore you, or perhaps will treat you as the class clown who drinks the cool-aid out of a jesters boot. In either case, I warned you this would happen, and you would not listen.

The samething can be said about yours.

Am not even gonna read the rest of your reply. Youve lost my interest. You are clearly just another abusive discusser. I dont waste my time with such.

The only thing am gonna tell you is am sorry if you felt offended. And if you feel like any of my claims isnt proven, tell me which and i will gove you the evidence. I always have back up for what i say, that i dont give it is different. I just dont see the need of doing so unless asked for it.

He doesn't feel like any of what you said has been proven. Because you've proven nothing, ignored rules, and just made stuff up constantly.

Originally posted by KingD19
He doesn't feel like any of what you said has been proven. Because you've proven nothing, ignored rules, and just made stuff up constantly.

Have you read?

Like what? Give me an example and i shall give you my evidence.

Relax, are you sure you are reading carefully?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The samething can be said about yours.

Am not even gonna read the rest of your reply. Youve lost my interest. You are clearly just another abusive discusser. I dont waste my time with such.

The only thing am gonna tell you is am sorry if you felt offended. And if you feel like any of my claims isnt proven, tell me which and i will gove you the evidence. I always have back up for what i say, that i dont give it is different. I just dont see the need of doing so unless asked for it.

THERE, Right there is your issue. I GAVE YOU an example, but you are more interested in fobbing off replies and trying to force me into a repeat cycle. If you won't read, then LEAVE and do not return.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
THERE, Right there is your issue. I GAVE YOU an example, but you are more interested in fobbing off replied and trying to force me into a repeat cycle. If you won't read, then LEAVE and do not return.

Is just that everything youve said of lately is mere stupidity and cursing. As i say, i dont waste my time on dicks.

I didnt read. I see, let me go for ky evidence, give me a sec.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Is just that everything youve said of lately is mere stupidity and cursing. As i say, i dont waste my time on dicks.

I didnt read. I see, let me go for ky evidence, give me a sec.

Nothing I said was stupid, and the only cursing I did was against your arguments, not YOU the person. If you can't handle the criticisms of your points then why are you here?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Lets start with some of the latest ones, for simplicities sake, Oberyn's poisons. You claimed he would use something other than what he has been shown to use, and that he has cupboards and wardrobes full of different poisons. You never cited any evidence of these and merely went with the broken logic that you THINK he would do it.

Here's the problem. "Maybes, mights, I thinks..." are not evidence. That would not fly in any legitimate debate. You handing advantages not demonstrated would never ever fly. We are dealing with hypothetical matchups, but we try to bring as much evidence of capability as we can, and that requires demonstrated feats and abilities, not ones we attribute out of personal gratification. When I say Legolas has the speed skill strength and experience edges over the team of The Mountain the Hound and Jaime, I say this with the citation that Legolas is in fact at least 5000 years old, and has not only bullet timed up a collapsing bridge, he's fought off waves of orcs solo, has tangled with trolls which are literal giants, he brought down a Mumakil alone.... these are feats no human in Game of thrones can match. Not even Baristan the Bold could match that. And I've read the extended books, so I know the history and lore of both series.

Minute 6:52.
https://youtu.be/fu3wR0LhcDo

Guess what, after all the show does follow the books!

Tywin Lannister confirms Oberyn's history. It is clearly stated that Oberyn studied the arts of poison in the Citadel, just like mentioned in the books. He DEFINETLY has a vast knowledge of the different venoms.

See? After all Oberyn does know about other poisons appart from Manticore's.

You are an idiot for saying Oberyn can only use one venom, and a greater Idiot for thinking i make replies without evidence!

Stop making a bigger fool of yourself would you? Now if you dont care, i have better things to do than lowering myself to your level. Cause i already used idiot, it seems your toxic behavior is getting into me.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Minute 6:52.
https://youtu.be/fu3wR0LhcDo

Guess what, after all the show does follow the books!

Tywin Lannister confirms Oberyn's history. It is clearly stated that Oberyn studied the arts of poison in the Citadel, just like mentioned in the books. He DEFINETLY has a vast knowledge of the different venoms.

See? After all Oberyn does know about other poisons appart from Manticore's.

You are an idiot for saying Oberyn can only use one venom, and a greater Idiot for thinking i make replies without evidence!

Stop making a bigger fool of yourself would you? Now if you dont care, i have better things to do than lowering myself to your level. Cause i already used idiot, it seems your toxic behavior is getting into me.

This does not prove that he MAKES or USES the poisons other than what he actually used. I showed you the histories video already, and Oberyn explains this very fact.

YouTube video 3:14

And there you go with the PERSONAL insults again. You called me an idiot. I never got personal with you, I merely attacked your argument. You need to learn the difference.

Now, you have proof that Oberyn studied poisons. I proved however that despite that, he favors manticore venom not just against Gregor, but in all his duels. Now. I believe this concludes that particular point in my favor.