Monarch replaces Odin against The Fourth Host of Celestials

Originally posted by Damborgson
This is a good way of putting it.

To say that the writers are downplaying characters just to make another look good, would effectively render any and all new threat as over inflated PIS ridden nonsense because they're strong only because heroes are being weakened to make them look good.

And the idea that because a character has 'bigger' feats in the past, that there's something less impressive about the celestials utterly no-selling 3 skyfathers, is blatantly stupid. But, you know whatever.

And they failed to no sell Thor in the very same arc.

So does that mean Thor>>> Three skyfathers?

Doomsday and Imperiex probes really aren't that impressive I guess. Because the heroes they beat were being lowballed to make them look good, and this is the truth 100% 👆

Kyle Rayner literally contained a big bang in the very same arc.

Some lowballing right there mate.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
😂 Monarch doesn’t have that kind of power to actually put down the Celestials from the fourth host.

And Celestials are vulnerable to draining as well.

Celestials

Lmao the Celestials used in this match up are from the arc what attacked Asgard, other showings are irrelevant here.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Lmao the Celestials used in this match up are from the arc what attacked Asgard, other showings are irrelevant here.

What level of beings can beat the celestials from Thor 300?

Originally posted by abhilegend
So since they went undefeated, nobody can defeat them?

What level of beings can beat the celestials from Thor 300?

I’m just pointing out the facts from the story you are ignoring.

How am I ignoring the story? You know these characters appeared after the story right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
How am I ignoring the story? You know these characters appeared after the story right?

Originally posted by Digi
iirc, in the Destroyer armor and with Uni-Mind, the Celestials basically no-sold him. I won't get into Monarch v. Odin specifically - I know the old guy has gotten a severe depowerment compared to his old days...but that's also part of the point. He was >>>> his more recent self in terms of feats and portrayals. Him getting wrecked against the 4th Host was, at the time, legitimately shocking.

So yeah, Celestials win imo.

Monarch destroyed a universe under his own power. Only time Odin ever did that was when combined with Infinity or something...

Even Celestials haven't ever busted universes on panel, to my knowledge.

It was a chain reaction that was caused after his defeat by Superboy Prime who can't do so either. Prime just bested him. Context is everything. This is about one character vs another group and who wins. Celestials can reform from the blast as well if need be. The Monitor outright survived it.

SBP was also guardian amped, and literally punched into the fifth dimensiom and kidnapped Mxy.

Just to rip through to the fifth dimension is > any Celestial feat ever.

Originally posted by cdtm
SBP was also guardian amped, and literally punched into the fifth dimensiom and kidnapped Mxy.

Just to rip through to the fifth dimension is > any Celestial feat ever.

And the fifth dimension feat was during infinite crisis when reality was in flux due to Alexander Luthor. This is about these guys against each other not feats. Please try to critically think and be objective in these debates.

Celestials stomp.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You tell me.

if you're asking my opinion, most certainly not. not even close tbh. you're suggesting prime be moved from trans/skyfather to....universal level? that seems crazy to me. equally crazy that monarch is viewed as universal level. /shrug

They are in same level of power, so maybe.

again i think that's crazy talk.

And OWAW Superman while sundipped wasn't insignificant against Imperiex.

it took him being empowered by-literally-the essence of the UNIVERSE (kismet) to pierce his armor. sun dipped was nowhere CLOSE to being able to take on imperiex directly. not even a question my friend.

And you're using circular logic to tell us how they are not that powerful.

c'mon abhi. you do it REGULARLY. make your case WITHOUT low balling the other side. you'll have better luck convincing people of your arguments.

Sundipped Superman overpowered Brainiac 13's Warworld empowered by Imperiex and was stated to kill Worloggog powered Vera Black in one punch. Both are legitimate universal powers.

doesn't mean he is a universal power. seriously? c'mon....

How about Odin dying against Mangog or getting oneshotted by him? Mangog can't be that powerful, right? [/B]

and....lowballing. dude, make your case FOR your guy instead of arguing AGAINST the other guy. it's very easy to argue that way but rarely works because you end up dismissing all the good showings the other guy has.

Originally posted by cdtm
Monarch destroyed a universe under his own power. Only time Odin ever did that was when combined with Infinity or something...

http://i57.tinypic.com/dggg42.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Exitar was stated to be more powerful than entire fourth host and while powerful he was never shown as a legit universal power.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Reason?

Thats plain overkill.

Originally posted by leonidas
if you're asking my opinion, most certainly not. not even close tbh. you're suggesting prime be moved from trans/skyfather to....universal level? that seems crazy to me. equally crazy that monarch is viewed as universal level. /shrug

So GA prime and Monarch actually destroying an entire universe doesn't makes them universal?

Could you explain why?

again i think that's crazy talk.

Why?

it took him being empowered by-literally-the essence of the UNIVERSE (kismet) to pierce his armor. sun dipped was nowhere CLOSE to being able to take on imperiex directly. not even a question my friend.

Normal Superman being powered up. Sundipped Superman overpowered Warworld which drained Imperiex's power and B13 was actually using it to counter Superman from moving the planet but was totally ineffective.

Strange way to depict sundipped Superman being insignificant to Imperiex.

c'mon abhi. you do it REGULARLY. make your case WITHOUT low balling the other side. you'll have better luck convincing people of your arguments.

I'm not lowballing anybody here. I'm just going by what's on panel. It's not my problem if you don't like that.

doesn't mean he is a universal power. seriously? c'mon....

Why not? He was twice shown that way under the same writer.

This is simply "Superman can't be that powerful because are you serious" argument I expect from someone not you.

and....lowballing. dude, make your case FOR your guy instead of arguing AGAINST the other guy. it's very easy to argue that way but rarely works because you end up dismissing all the good showings the other guy has.

What good showing did I dismissed here? Just curious.

And the sheer irony isn't lost on me either.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He did displace a universe. I think that's pretty up there.
http://i60.tinypic.com/jhvqr5.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/dggg42.jpg

Originally posted by "Id"
Uncanny Avengers says he is. But somehow your going to twist the scans shown against the fact. Am I right?

Let me show another quote from someone not prone to hyperbolic statements like Kang.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u6s5TNKaV18/U6sTNf7SOrI/AAAAAAADzTU/4t_7ObvLGjg/s1600/-015.jpg

"I'll teleport your great energies to feed a dying star".

Considering Kang got his ass handed to him by Havok and Sunfire draining power from him, I'm less likely to take kang on his gloating.

Just because the Celestials do not choose to tear down the universe does not mean they do not have the power to do so. In this case you have Monarch take on about 10 Celestials....each considered a universal force or higher.

Thats plain overkill.

By that logic, Monarch must be omniversal because why not? He doesn't only chose to destroy the omniverse, he already has that power.

Let's see celestials record en masse , shall we?

Dozens of celestials ran away from Galactus Engine.
Entire Celestial race was captured by a single cosmic cube in reality 691.
Godkiller armor literally killed billions of Celestials.
Entire Celestial race was stalemated by watcher race for thousands of years.
Ego was shown stalemating dozens of Celestials at once.
X-Terminators killed untold number of Celestials.

Gee, that's a lot of universal showings right there.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Pocket universe. Impressive but not out of norm for skyfathers.