Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Just curious. When was it stated to be a "pocket uni"? Mayne I missed something. Also if it is a "pocket uni", how big is it in relation to a regular one?
Traditionally Asgard and related realms were only continental sized chunks of masses. Now who knows.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Let me show another quote from someone not prone to hyperbolic statements like Kang.http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u6s5TNKaV18/U6sTNf7SOrI/AAAAAAADzTU/4t_7ObvLGjg/s1600/-015.jpg
"I'll teleport your great energies to feed a dying star".
Considering Kang got his ass handed to him by Havok and Sunfire draining power from him, I'm less likely to take kang on his gloating.
By that logic, Monarch must be omniversal because why not? He doesn't only chose to destroy the omniverse, he already has that power.
Let's see celestials record en masse , shall we?
Dozens of celestials ran away from Galactus Engine.
Entire Celestial race was captured by a single cosmic cube in reality 691.
Godkiller armor literally killed billions of Celestials.
Entire Celestial race was stalemated by watcher race for thousands of years.
Ego was shown stalemating dozens of Celestials at once.
X-Terminators killed untold number of Celestials.Gee, that's a lot of universal showings right there.
You are alone in this topic in your own thoughts.
Fans of both companies that take their time to deconstruct what we read can not back you up on your claims.
Originally posted by "Id"
You are alone in this topic in your own thoughts.
Fans of both companies that take their time to deconstruct what we read can not back you up on your claims.
Way to prove yourself dude.
Originally posted by abhilegend
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populumWay to prove yourself dude.
Ahbi. Your obsession with comics and in trying to Prove DC Superiority over Marvel in just about every topic is making you delusional.
Have a nice day with your thoughts.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Asgard and related realms are pocket universes. Even as recently as Unworthy Thor entire old Asgard space was stored in a part of a small solar system sized ship.Traditionally Asgard and related realms were only continental sized chunks of masses. Now who knows.
Btw Angela had traveled to different planets/moons while in the tenth realm.
http://imgur.com/3qPWX0B.jpg
Even different galaxies... All prior to getting dropped into 616.
http://i61.tinypic.com/mkzxgl.jpg
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Old Asgard proper and not "Old Asgard Space" was stolen from the Old Asgard Space and stored in the Collector's ship.Btw Angela had traveled to different planets/moons while in the tenth realm.
http://imgur.com/3qPWX0B.jpgEven different galaxies... All prior to getting dropped into 616.
http://i61.tinypic.com/mkzxgl.jpg
Where is that from? Because Aaron didn't show Tenth Realm to be that big.
And all Odin did was create a barrier around tenth realm. When Thor broke the seal, the realm was again connected with the Yggdrasil.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CEEhm7PvNlo/VAHo_j0Yx7I/AAAAAAAEp_g/Zr09Ee1zKYk/s1600/-004%2Bcopy.jpg
It was the same barrier Odin put on old Asgard.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dqBYGJwId9g/VAHpF1B7ENI/AAAAAAAEqAo/-7eKg8fBTJw/s1600/-013%2Bcopy.jpg
Tenth Realm wasn't moved from Yggdrasil, Odin just hid it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So GA prime and Monarch actually destroying an entire universe doesn't makes them universal?Could you explain why?
where are the scans that show the feats exactly...? acting as a catalyst=/=having universe-destroying power, which is what is required to be a truly universal level being.
Why?
see above.
Normal Superman being powered up. Sundipped Superman overpowered Warworld which drained Imperiex's power and B13 was actually using it to counter Superman from moving the planet but was totally ineffective.Strange way to depict sundipped Superman being insignificant to Imperiex.
strange way to assume he wasn't. as with so many of your extrapolations, you have too many degrees of separation for your argument to hold any weight at all. if writers wanted to you think a sun dip put superman at universal levels (lol) they'd have shown it when he faced imperiex. you literally expect us to believe that that sun dip granted him power that rivaled or equaled the power he gained when he was bonded with the essence of the universe itself. and you don't see the craziness in that? again, c'mon....
I'm not lowballing anybody here. I'm just going by what's on panel. It's not my problem if you don't like that.
of course you are. you already brought up mangog and i've lost the number of times you bring up the whole ant thing. more to the point: YOUR ENTIRE STANCE IS PREDICATED ON A LOW BALLING OF THE CELESTIAL SHOWING VS THE SKYFATHERS! LOL if we look at odin alone's best feats no selling him is very solid. factor in 2 other high skyfathers attacked with him, and add in the fact that the destroyer, granted power by all skyfathers, couldn't do anything against arishem and there is no way to dismiss the showing UNLESS you low ball it. lol
Why not? He was twice shown that way under the same writer.This is simply "Superman can't be that powerful because are you serious" argument I expect from someone not you.
that i DO have an issue with what you're saying should tell you just how hair-brained it is. 😛 it has nothing to do with superman and his potential. bonded with kismet he became part of a universal power. sun-dipped? not even close imo. pushing against some power=/=being a universal power no matter how much you want to conflate the 2. a 'true' universal power has power over the universe, or a fundamental force of the universe. monarch doesn't have that. seriously, put monarch against truly universal level beings. pretty sure it would end like this one, with you on your own. not that that is a real indicator around here of right and wrong, but you have a noticeable lack of support from people who generally lean in your direction. that speaks volumes. /shrug
What good showing did I dismissed here? Just curious.And the sheer irony isn't lost on me either. [/B]
you have ALREADY labelled the skyfathers showing vs arishem as PIS, what are you talking about? then when someone brings up a good feat for a skyfather to show how great that showing was, you lowball skyfathers. and if that's not bad enough you start talking about/low balling celestials based on later showings who have nothing to do with this thread. then, when someone brings up GOOD feats from later showings, you low ball THOSE! 😂 it's so ingrained in you it's become second nature. you don't even realize you're doing it. it's like it's become reflex. dude, i know you usually know your sh!t. this time i think you're dead wrong in almost all ways. i admire your willingness to take on 6 at once lol so i'll make your job easier and bow out since you have literally no chance of changing my mind anyway. so carry on. this is a bad hill to die on though....
Originally posted by leonidas
where are the scans that show the feats exactly...? acting as a catalyst=/=having universe-destroying power, which is what is required to be a truly universal level being.
Monarch destroyed Earth 51 universe. Monitors had to rebuild it.
Prime destroyed Earth 15 universe and it was explained in Multiversity.
see above.
Uh, what?
[strange way to assume he wasn't. as with so many of your extrapolations, you have too many degrees of separation for your argument to hold any weight at all. if writers wanted to you think a sun dip put superman at universal levels (lol) they'd have shown it when he faced imperiex. you literally expect us to believe that that sun dip granted him power that rivaled or equaled the power he gained when he was bonded with the essence of the universe itself. and you don't see the craziness in that? again, c'mon....
So another "Superman can't be that powerful" ad hominem?
Superman faced and shit stomped Brainiac wielding Imperiex's power who just had to connect Earth and Apokolips to gain absolute omnipotence.
Originally posted by abhilegend
[B]Ok, its often asked just how powerful Sundipped Superman was compared to normal Superman in OWAW.So first lets see how Normal Superman, Captain Marvel, Captain Atom and Wonder Woman were faring against mere hardlight constructs of Warworld.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028860/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg09.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028862/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg10.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028865/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg11.jpg.html
Not great it seems. Entropy Aegis comes and oneshots all of them in one panel.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028866/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg12.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028868/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg13.jpg.htmlNow Warworld's tendril that was connecting to Earth. It was so strong that a suicide attempt by Maxima and Massacre was just enough to send a shiver through it.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028862/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg10.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028865/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg11.jpg.htmlEntropy Aegis severed it in one attack though. The tendrils healed back.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028866/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg12.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028868/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg13.jpg.htmlAnd even Themyscira thrown to the tendril barely caused any trouble to it.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028871/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg14.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028872/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg15.jpg.htmlSuperman, Captain Marvel and Captain Atom were unable to do anything to it apparently, so they went in to divert B13's attention. So far so good.
Until B13 makes the tendrils a hundred times more powerful and even Entropy Aegis is useless.
Superman sundipped and effortlessly broke the conduits/tendrils magnified hundredfold in power when normal Superman couldn't take it on at normal level along with several top tiers.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips2.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips3.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips4.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips5.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips6.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips7.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips8.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips9.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips10.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips11.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips12.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips13.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips14.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips15.jpgSuperman was at least powered up by a factor of hundreds.
Let me guess, Brainiac with Imperiex power who was getting even more powerful was less powerful than Imperiex?
of course you are. you already brought up mangog and i've lost the number of times you bring up the whole ant thing. more to the point: YOUR ENTIRE STANCE IS PREDICATED ON A LOW BALLING OF THE CELESTIAL SHOWING VS THE SKYFATHERS! LOL if we look at odin alone's best feats no selling him is very solid. factor in 2 other high skyfathers attacked with him, and add in the fact that the destroyer, granted power by all skyfathers, couldn't do anything against arishem and there is no way to dismiss the showing UNLESS you low ball it. lol
All of the skyfathers combined attacks were planetary. So were Destroyer's attacks.
You're using Odin's best feats and supplanting them on celestials. That's not how it works.
that i DO have an issue with what you're saying should tell you just how hair-brained it is. 😛 it has nothing to do with superman and his potential. bonded with kismet he became part of a universal power. sun-dipped? not even close imo. pushing against some power=/=being a universal power no matter how much you want to conflate the 2. a 'true' universal power has power over the universe, or a fundamental force of the universe. monarch doesn't have that. seriously, put monarch against truly universal level beings. pretty sure it would end like this one, with you on your own. not that that is a real indicator around here of right and wrong, but you have a noticeable lack of support from people who generally lean in your direction. that speaks volumes. /shrug
So again nothing but ad hominem?
B13 with Imperiex's power isn't a universal being? Why couldn't he just stop Superman if he wasn't at that level and just watch helplessly as Superman simply pushed him to to his death?
You're again interchanging versatility with power. Those are not inclusive deals. What Superman lacked in versatility he made it up with his raw power.
you have ALREADY labelled the skyfathers showing vs arishem as PIS, what are you talking about? then when someone brings up a good feat for a skyfather to show how great that showing was, you lowball skyfathers. and if that's not bad enough you start talking about/low balling celestials based on later showings who have nothing to do with this thread. then, when someone brings up GOOD feats from later showings, you low ball THOSE! 😂 it's so ingrained in you it's become second nature. you don't even realize you're doing it. it's like it's become reflex. dude, i know you usually know your sh!t. this time i think you're dead wrong in almost all ways. i admire your willingness to take on 6 at once lol so i'll make your job easier and bow out since you have literally no chance of changing my mind anyway. so carry on. this is a bad hill to die on though.... [/B]
No, I didn't. I said it's a low showing for skyfathers.
There is a big difference in both.
I like how you are frothing at the mouth because I dare say planetary feats for skyfathers is a low showing for them.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, Old Asgard which was entirety of Asgard.
http://readcomicbooksonline.net/reader/Thor_God_Of_Thunder_2013/Thor_God_Of_Thunder_(2013)_11/8
Originally posted by abhilegend
Where is that from? Because Aaron didn't show Tenth Realm to be that big.
Aaron or rather the artist depicting Heven proper being torn doesn't mean the tenth realm was tiny.
Originally posted by abhilegend
And all Odin did was create a barrier around tenth realm. When Thor broke the seal, the realm was again connected with the Yggdrasil.http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CEEhm7PvNlo/VAHo_j0Yx7I/AAAAAAAEp_g/Zr09Ee1zKYk/s1600/-004%2Bcopy.jpg
It was the same barrier Odin put on old Asgard.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dqBYGJwId9g/VAHpF1B7ENI/AAAAAAAEqAo/-7eKg8fBTJw/s1600/-013%2Bcopy.jpg
Tenth Realm wasn't moved from Yggdrasil, Odin just hid it.
Odin erecting a barrier to hide and keep them from connecting to the rest of the ten(nine) realms doesn't negate the fact that he "tore" it off from the world tree.
How do u think characters are depicted travelling from one universe to the next? Sometimes it's as simple as them stepping a few feet into a portal and then poof, they are in a completely new universe. Just because it was "hidden" doesn't mean it's close by or easily traversed.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Asgard and related realms are pocket universes. Even as recently as Unworthy Thor entire old Asgard space was stored in a part of a small solar system sized ship.Traditionally Asgard and related realms were only continental sized chunks of masses. Now who knows.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Monarch destroyed Earth 51 universe. Monitors had to rebuild it.Prime destroyed Earth 15 universe and it was explained in Multiversity.
uh, so....nothing on panel. i can't even imagine--no never i can imagine exactly--what you do to people on the opposite side of a debate who show something like that. off panel=/=who cares. how did he destroy though, out of curiosity...? and what about monarch's feat of universal destruction?
So another "Superman can't be that powerful" ad hominem?Superman faced and shit stomped Brainiac wielding Imperiex's power who just had to connect Earth and Apokolips to gain absolute omnipotence.
Let me guess, Brainiac with Imperiex power who was getting even more powerful was less powerful than Imperiex?
being able to push brainiac=/=universal power. not sure what's not computing. if he had all of imperiex's power at his disposal, why not just blast supes with entropy, exactly the way imperiex obliterated doomsday? simple. he couldn't use imperiex's power like imperiex did. ffs, why not just teleport war world away from him if brainiac was so all-powerful??
pushing brainiac=/=beating imperiex OR being a universal power. it just means he was really really strong. can't believe this has to be explained to you.
btw most of those sh!tty photobucket scans are all broken.
All of the skyfathers combined attacks were planetary. So were Destroyer's attacks.You're using Odin's best feats and supplanting them on celestials. That's not how it works.
lol now THAT's ironic. but cool, if we're sticking to the letter of the text, then arishem's own answering blast was "immeasurably more potent" than all three combined. and the destroyer that faced the celestials? guess what? "virtually all-powerful". and that was BEFORE odin put not only the combined powers of all the skyfathers into the destroyer, but also his own life force AND the totality of the life force of asgard itself.
that should end the discussion, right? wait, you'll accept that the god blasts were "planetary" but that the other terminology was all hyperbole, right? you don't get to pick and choose. and you realize odin created a sword in that book with his own power that if unsheathed by the wrong person was capable of "rending the fabric of infinity" itself.
So again nothing but ad hominem?B13 with Imperiex's power isn't a universal being? Why couldn't he just stop Superman if he wasn't at that level and just watch helplessly as Superman simply pushed him to to his death?
You're again interchanging versatility with power. Those are not inclusive deals. What Superman lacked in versatility he made it up with his raw power.
no, they really aren't. at all. you think a sun dipped superman can beat kismet?? eternity?? geezus, this is the most absurd argument i've ever seen you struggle to make. i'm convinced even YOU don't believe it, but are in too deep and can't back out now....
No, I didn't. I said it's a low showing for skyfathers.There is a big difference in both.
low for them or extremely high for the celestials, who, in that book, were said to be capable of laying waste a universe? we all know where you'll fall out. in that book, celestials are said to be able to destroy a universe. crystal clear. a random celestial also blocked the disintegration beam without effort--and that beam was ridiculously amped. at normal levels it was said to be able to kill a skyfather.
I like how you are frothing at the mouth because I dare say planetary feats for skyfathers is a low showing for them.
😂
frothing? if i were pissed you'd know it. this is pointless. monarch gets obliterated by the celestials. imo his blasts would be blocked as easily--more easily--than the destroyer's disintegration beam would be. you can die on this hill alone, but clearly this is pointless. i am content to let everyone read this, and confident you are incapable of convincing anyone at all that a sun dipped superman is anymore universal in power than monarch is.
I don't know, Destroyer is powerful, yes.. It's also clearly waaaay beneath Celestials.
Pretty sure Monarch can at least take AD in base form. I mean, Thor and Hulk at least stagger the thing, while Monarch just stood there and didn't even react to teams that included Superman, Lanterns, Captain Atoms..
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wrong. Old Asgard in the Collector's ship is just Asgard proper. There is still Old Asgard space. There's an actual space where these land masses reside.
http://oi60.tinypic.com/jhvqr5.jpghttp://readcomicbooksonline.net/reader/Thor_God_Of_Thunder_2013/Thor_God_Of_Thunder_(2013)_11/8
Yes, there is. But Asgard as itself isn't that big. Just like Haven.
Flashbacks shown in Angela's books. Angel grew up travelling and hunting in different galaxies. Kinda shows the tenth realm had its own working cosmos.
No, it doesn't adds to the feat if the later writers added something not taken into account. Aaron simply did not depict such.
Aaron or rather the artist depicting Heven proper being torn doesn't mean the tenth realm was tiny.
No, it being tiny is it being tiny.
Not sure what ure trying to get at here.
Odin erecting a barrier to hide and keep them from connecting to the rest of the ten(nine) realms doesn't negate the fact that he "tore" it off from the world tree.
And Thor's lightning untore it off?
Only the gateway to Haven was sealed. Not entire realm was moved.
How do u think characters are depicted travelling from one universe to the next? Sometimes it's as simple as them stepping a few feet into a portal and then poof, they are in a completely new universe. Just because it was "hidden" doesn't mean it's close by or easily traversed.
That's because it was right where it always was. Just its connection to Yggdrasil sealed off.
BTW that scan where it is said that prison of gods was the size of the universe, it was Asgard and not tenth realm.
That's the size of the "universe" as per Aaron.
Originally posted by leonidas
uh, so....nothing on panel. i can't even imagine--no never i can imagine exactly--what you do to people on the opposite side of a debate who show something like that. off panel=/=who cares. how did he destroy though, out of curiosity...? and what about monarch's feat of universal destruction?
That's from Monarch's explosion.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103729/3602747-4106157259-34700.jpg
being able to push brainiac=/=universal power. not sure what's not computing. if he had all of imperiex's power at his disposal, why not just blast supes with entropy, exactly the way imperiex obliterated doomsday? simple. he couldn't use imperiex's power like imperiex did. ffs, why not just teleport war world away from him if brainiac was so all-powerful??
ermm
He tried blasting Superman with Imperiex's power. Superman flat out ignored it.
Did you even read the comic? Brainiac's whole plan was to connect apokolips and earth to gain even more power.
You're just using circular logic now.
pushing brainiac=/=beating imperiex OR being a universal power. it just means he was really really strong. can't believe this has to be explained to you.
😂
The same old KMC myth that unless you are versatile you're not actually powerful.
btw most of those sh!tty photobucket scans are all broken.
At least I'm posting scans. All you're doing is denying everything.
lol now THAT's ironic. but cool, if we're sticking to the letter of the text, then arishem's own answering blast was "immeasurably more potent" than all three combined. and the destroyer that faced the celestials? guess what? "virtually all-powerful". and that was BEFORE odin put not only the combined powers of all the skyfathers into the destroyer, but also his own life force AND the totality of the life force of asgard itself.
Yes, virtually all powerful on planetary level. Marvel has ranked even omnipotence, y'know.
that should end the discussion, right? wait, you'll accept that the god blasts were "planetary" but that the other terminology was all hyperbole, right? you don't get to pick and choose. and you realize odin created a sword in that book with his own power that if unsheathed by the wrong person was capable of "rending the fabric of infinity" itself.
Yes, it could cut through space time. Persuader's axe does it everyday.
Flowery language leo, read it very carefully.
no, they really aren't. at all. you think a sun dipped superman can beat kismet?? eternity?? geezus, this is the most absurd argument i've ever seen you struggle to make. i'm convinced even YOU don't believe it, but are in too deep and can't back out now....
In that comic? He was capable of ignoring direct attacks from universal beings and overpowered them. It was an absurdly high feat for him. You're still not grasping how absurd.
low for them or extremely high for the celestials, who, in that book, were said to be capable of laying waste a universe? we all know where you'll fall out. in that book, celestials are said to be able to destroy a universe. crystal clear. a random celestial also blocked the disintegration beam without effort--and that beam was ridiculously amped. at normal levels it was said to be able to kill a skyfather.
Where is all of this stated? Scans please.
😂
frothing? if i were pissed you'd know it. this is pointless. monarch gets obliterated by the celestials. imo his blasts would be blocked as easily--more easily--than the destroyer's disintegration beam would be. you can die on this hill alone, but clearly this is pointless. i am content to let everyone read this, and confident you are incapable of convincing anyone at all that a sun dipped superman is anymore universal in power than monarch is.
😂
This is as hilarious and pointless retort I've seen from you leo. No debate point, just blind devotion to celestials and skyfathers.
