Originally posted by Robtard
Stop. You're the one that asked me to address his failed point and I did. There is no hypocrisy as shown on the previous page. Anyhow, moving on.
Ok so if its just a flag/anthem. So is the confederate flag/statue, whats the difference? Why does one not mean anything, the other does?
Originally posted by Sable
Ok so if its just a flag/anthem. So is the confederate flag/statue, whats the difference? Why does one not mean anything, the other does?
You insist that was the point, it never was. HYG again:
Originally posted by Robtard
For one, your insistence that the protest is about being anti-America and/or even Anti-Anthem is false. It's not about that, they're kneeling to draw attention to a cause (you can agree or not here on the cause), they're not kneeling to have the anthem taken away or to destroy America.See, no hypocrisy in reality. Only imagined hypocrisy. Glad we could clear that up.
I suspect you'll dance around again and then go back to your false narrative.
Originally posted by Robtard
Repeat: Because. No. One. Is. Attacking. The. Flag. Nor. The. Anthem.That's the false narrative Trumpco and Trumpers are pushing to diminish the peaceful protestors.
This is also beyond the point that it's legal to burn flags and not stand for the anthem, cos you know, individual rights is still a thing, at least for now.
That's not my point, though.
Do we support taking the statues down because of some metatextual symbolism? Do peoples feelings not come into the equation? Because personally, I'm enough of a bleeding heart to say that if some people are being offended in a very deep, very personal way, then yeah, something probably should be done about that.
By the same logic, could there not be some people who geninely, sincerely put stock in the what the flag and anthem represent to them? Are their feelings on this form of protest REGARDLESS OF INTENT, not to be considered or addressed?
I'm not saying action should be taken legally to enforce/prevent anything. I disagree with the Westboro Baptist Church and wouldn't lose any sleep if they all ended up underneath a swarm of meteors just big enough to pick them off like ants, but I wouldn't ever condone stopping their actions by law or by force.
Originally posted by Robtard
You insist that was the point, it never was. HYG again:I suspect you'll dance around again and then go back to your false narrative.
Why are you shifting the topic now. Fine lets agree its not about being anti American etc.
But if the flag/anthem doesn't mean anything, why does the confederate flag?
Originally posted by cdtm
That's not my point, though.Do we support taking the statues down because of some metatextual symbolism? Do peoples feelings not come into the equation? Because personally, I'm enough of a bleeding heart to say that if some people are being offended in a very deep, very personal way, then yeah, something probably should be done about that.
By the same logic, could there not be some people who geninely, sincerely put stock in the what the flag and anthem represent to them? Are their feelings on this form of protest REGARDLESS OF INTENT, not to be considered or addressed?
I'm not saying action should be taken legally to enforce/prevent anything. I disagree with the Westboro Baptist Church and wouldn't lose any sleep if they all ended up underneath a swarm of meteors just big enough to pick them off like ants, but I wouldn't ever condone stopping their actions by law or by force.
Another faulty comparison. Who is taking down the American flag or trying to remove the national anthem? Aside from rando twitter troll #2
This belief that someone else not standing means you can't or it somehow affects your patriotism is truly weird and twisted.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Symbols either have meaning, or they don't. you don't get to say "this group of symbols have meaning, but that group doesn't". at least not without being called on your obvious double standards.
Your trolling is weak at best. Can you at least try to do better?
As pointed out: Person A kneeling doesn't affect the patriotism/symblism of Person B standing. There's literally no relation. Maybe in retard land, but not in reality. I choose to live in reality
Originally posted by cdtm
Rob, his point isn't the symbol. It's the person, and what that symbol means to him.In the end, that's really all that matters here..
Okay, and? No one is saying he can't view the Confederate Flag as a symbol of greatness like he does, he's personally free to see it that way cos that's his right. I even support him to is rights there, though I disagree morally and find it in poor taste.
This was never in question though. So it honestly just seems like an attempt to shift away from failed point.
Flags are just flags, and statues are just statues; what they symbolize is what is important.
A Nazi flag symbolizes hatred, bigotry, and the brutal treatment and extermination of millions of people. Germany outlawed them for that very reason. Germany has not forgotten its history, but has realized and accepted that they were undeniably on the wrong side of history, and that era is one to be reviled and condemned.
Likewise, a Confederate flag originally symbolized the secession of Southern states from the rest of the United States in order to continue the enslavement and inhumane treatment of millions of Africans and their descendents they considered to be lesser humans. Although it somewhat evolved as a symbol of Southern pride, it still retains its original meaning to many, including those who would wear or wave it. What values do Confederate statues that were mostly erected during the Jim Crow and Civil Rights eras symbolize?
The American flag is supposed to symbolize freedom and equality, but there have clearly been several disconnects when you look at our history, and some of those problems persist to this day. That is what people are kneeling in protest of, specifically inequality in the form of unfair treatment from law-enforcement and the court system based on ethnicity, not the flag or the anthem themselves. Kneeling during the anthem is not only the vehicle for the protest to garner attention, but a demonstration to make the statement that the values symbolized by the flag and anthem are not being upheld.
Do we support taking the statues down because of some metatextual symbolism?
No I support taking them down because why the f@#k were stautes of traitors against the United States ever put up using tax payer dollars in the first place?
Explain to me why a statue of Stonewall Jackson or Robert E Lee should be erected in an American town? Are cities like Dallas, Charleston, and Birmingham American towns or southern towns?
If they consider themselves American towns then those men are traitors in their nations history. Why exalt and honor a traitor with a statue?
Originally posted by Robtard
Another person who doesn't seem to understand US history.Do you really believe "black power" is the same as "white power"?
If someone actually gives a shit about racial pride of any sort, that's just sad that they have nothing better in your life to celebrate, such as an ability or an actual virtue or something you actually achieved.
Racial collectivism is divisive along racial lines and certainly doesn't help the social fabric of our country, and promulgates different moral standards or different levels of collective innocence or guilt between different races. This racial divisiveness and collectivization is something that should be marginalized and minimized in our country.
And before you argue Trump is also a divisive figure, I agree, he's used this kneeling shit to divide Americans along this line for his own political benefit so he can look like the patriotic guy while framing his opponents as people who are unpatriotic. I didn't vote for Trump, and I have no interest in defending Trump from an accusation I agree with.