My Hero is best at EVERYTHING!! No fooling man!!!

Originally posted by darthgoober

Here's the thing though, there's nothing wrong with their old feats. Feats don't have to be new to be valid and newer feats aren't actually MORE valid than older feats. The "current versions of characters" stipulation in the rules has been corrupted to mean as such by many, but that's not actually what that stipulation is talking about. What that stipulation has always meant, is that if "Thor" is listed as the thread participant then right now it means Jane Thor by default. It doesn't mean that in a thread featuring Odinson w/hammer is about "Odinson as he was portrayed for a year and a half before losing the hammer".

Never said there was anything wrong, or invalid, with old scans. Am actually saying the opposite.

Just that there were no new feats, to keep debates fresh. A Thor/Hulk/Superman thread would have the exact same scans, same arguments etc now as it would have 10 years ago, if I stipulated only pre-52/Odinson with Mjolnir/Banner. Nothing fresh. The same Thor with Worldtree/Midgard Serpent scan would be used, Superman lifting Spectre/Infinite book/turning Mageddon's gears/pulling 1/3rd Earth etc would be used, and the same arguments would be used against it. In fact, I predict some people may even read this post and get so triggered they'd rush in screaming its been debunked etc etc.

So no change from 2007.

Except now, if I just did a Hulk/Superman thread, it would be Cho and HIS new feats....against Superman and his more expansive library of feats.

A "boost"? Nope, not in the slightest. It certainly gives him a more expansive library of feats, but not a higher quality of them. Do you really think that his Earth weight feat is more impressive than lifting the supposedly infinite weight of that book?

But now, he has a stone cold feat. Which he didn't have before. Which cannot be argued against. So yeah, for BATTLEBOARD purposes, it's more impressive/cast-iron.

Originally posted by carver9
@Darksaint (read your posts through people quotes)...

I understand Superman benching earth weight but I would not put that above Hulk nearly depleting In-betweener of his power via strength. Not even close honestly. Superman ft is highly impressive whereas Hulk ft is insane.

REAAALLY not my point, butin fact, this post highlights EXACTLY what I am trying to pinpoint as being wrong. My point was, Superman has new feats to use thanks to DC amalgamating him. Hulk is no longer Banner. Cho is now the Hulk (and has been for nearly 2 years now). Cho never nearly depleted InBetweener.

If you wanted to make an argument using Banner showings, then it just reverts back to the good old days - and everyone has seen the same tired old arguments.

And so, people would leave. There's nothing new to type about Banner vs Clark. No new insights, or canon feats that fans on both sides haven't seen before. Yeah, we've all seen the InBetweener scans, from Longshot Saves the MArvel Universe when it was released back in 2013. That's FOUR years ago. Four years of rehashing and repeating the same feats.

Imagine if next week, Banner returned, and said something along the lines of what WW said about Superman. The thing about the Hulk is....even when he went Worldbreaker....HE ALWAYS HELD BACK.

Hulk fans would spontaneously combust.

THAT is what I meant. Week in, week out, DC have given Superman good feats. He does this. Does that. Someone says this or that about him.

Hulk fans, however, have to rehash the same old sentences they typed back in the day. Still valid,of course. Not saying they're not valid. AT ALL. But it's boring, and soon one would tire of doing the same thing over and over. Imagine abhi, who a lot of you hate....but he only uses the same scans over and over again. Never brings any new scans.

Let's step back from Superman/Hulk for a minute. Deathstroke vs Deadpool.

Back in the day, it would get to quite a few pages. DS would be stronger, DP faster, whatever. HF and all that jazz. Put Wolverine in there too.

Now? On page 1, two words would be typed. Ikon Suit. A scan would be posted (you know the one,I don't even need to link to it).

And that would be that. Is it DS fans who are to blame? Is it their fault DC published a comic where he goes up against frigging Superman (and it hasn't been the last or the first time either)?

And so, DS fans would run rampant on the forums. But until Marvel equips it's street characters with inertron like metals or something like that, something to get past the suit (or DC downgrades DS) well....

And that's ignoring the fact Wolverine = Laura (yes I know Logan's coming back, but he's not back yet).

Originally posted by abhilegend
ermm

Nobody has resisted Parallax like that trying to take possession. Not Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner or even Ganthet.

Further Sinestro was trying to absorb Parallax for hours and failed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
ermm

Nobody has resisted Parallax like that trying to take possession. Not Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner or even Ganthet.

Further Sinestro was trying to absorb Parallax for hours and failed.

The comic made a point of how Sinestro was hurt or still recovering from his fight with Hal. So a little bitbof context to that.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not really disputing that.
I was referring to what PR said how he "controlled it with ease" later on. To which I said hostless emotional entities have been overpowered many times and some with ease.

The comic made a point of how Sinestro was hurt or still recovering from his fight with Hal. So a little bitbof context to that.

That's about as high you can get in willpower contest. I doubt even Hal could do that and he was shown a complete noob trying to use the yellow ring.

Gud for Supes.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hal replicates the feat considering the feats of will he's had in the past.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Never said there was anything wrong, or invalid, with old scans. Am actually saying the opposite.

Just that there were no new feats, to keep debates fresh. A Thor/Hulk/Superman thread would have the exact same scans, same arguments etc now as it would have 10 years ago, if I stipulated only pre-52/Odinson with Mjolnir/Banner. Nothing fresh. The same Thor with Worldtree/Midgard Serpent scan would be used, Superman lifting Spectre/Infinite book/turning Mageddon's gears/pulling 1/3rd Earth etc would be used, and the same arguments would be used against it. In fact, I predict some people may even read this post and get so triggered they'd rush in screaming its been debunked etc etc.

So no change from 2007.

Except now, if I just did a Hulk/Superman thread, it would be Cho and HIS new feats....against Superman and his more expansive library of feats.

Yeah but see, a lack of new feats isn't actually the problem for good debaters from the "old school". We were debating before scan bombing became prevalent in the first place based primarily on logic and common sense. And besides, it's not like Marvel's newer comics don't dish out plenty of feats... Hell Thor's fight that was damaging other planets can easily match(and arguably exceed) any striking/durability feats the merged Supes can muster. The thing is that it frequently seems as though lowballing feats from Marvel is allowed while lowballing feats from DC frequently gets outright shut down by the Mods. Now I can't say whether or not that's because Marvel fans are less likely to hit the report button, that the Mods are more bothered by the Marvel fans articulation of their arguments or what, but it's something that happens.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
EXACTLY. You use the word 'supposedly'. So on the one hand, you (as a potential debater) would accept without argument, that Superman benched the Earth for 5 days, no sun, no rest yadda yadda. But bring up the infinite book and it's all 'no, it was only SAID to have infinite PAGES', 'Well, Ultraman read to the end', 'Are you forgetting Billy?' etc etc.

But now, he has a stone cold feat. Which he didn't have before. Which cannot be argued against. So yeah, for BATTLEBOARD purposes, it's more impressive/cast-iron.

That's just me, I view ALL massive feats with skepticism. I put the infinite book feat in the same category as I do Thor's feats involving the Midgard Serpent and having his gravity infinitely increased, or Herc lifting the weight of the Heavens/Universe. They're all unquantifiable in such a way that they're automatically superior to any quantifiable feats because the whole point of them is that they're supposed to be flat out impossible for ANYONE to do. Not all unquantifiable feats are like that but the one's that are supposed to be totally beyond human comprehension are. Quantifiable feats are good, but it's the existence of a good number of unquantifiable feats that separates mid heralds from high heralds. It's the reason that Captain Marvel is Mid while Supes is high. Because even though at his best CM=SM, at Supes's best CM<SM. Same thing goes for guys like Thor and BRB.

It's not just scan bombing. It's new feats AND new arguments. Sure, good debaters back in the day could argue...but once youve had the same argument backed up (or not) with the same scans..... What left is there to do?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's not just scan bombing. It's new feats AND new arguments. Sure, good debaters back in the day could argue...but once youve had the same argument backed up (or not) with the same scans..... What left is there to do?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well put it this way, I personally don't mind rehashing old arguements as long as my older points aren't being ignored because they're old. Neither does/did Bran, Scoobs, Blair, ODG, Rage, Ambient, and several others... and I know that for a fact because the decline in the quality of debates taking away from our incentive to debate in the first place is something that I've discussed with all of them at some point. You're free to believe me or not as your prerogative, but it's honestly because KMC has went from being the middle ground between CBR and herochat to becoming a DC favoring version of herochat.

And this isn't DC version of herochat. It's just Superman who isn't considered doormat for marvel heralds here. Most of DC characters are still heavily underestimated.

mmm

Case in point...

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm not surprised that most of your list were huge marvel fanboys.

And this isn't DC version of herochat. It's just Superman who isn't considered doormat for marvel heralds here. Most of DC characters are still heavily underestimated.

mmm

...the label "fanboy" as abhi just used it is a form of bashing/flaming as specifically listed in the forum rules but I bet almost anything that abhi won't actually get a warning for using it or even be told to knock it off. On the other hand, if I or those I listed started throwing it around as freely as he does we'd most certainly be called out on it. Not because the mods favor abhi over us, but because they actually expect us to be able to have a reasonable discussion. Trolls are allowed to troll... this is a problem that takes away good debaters incentive to put in any effort.

ermm

You think calling someone a fanboy is flaming?

But calling me a troll is all fine and dandy, huh?

On the other Hand....its a great time to be GL Fan. Sinestro or Hal are reaping in the rewards. peaches

Originally posted by &quot;Id&quot;
On the other Hand....its a great time to be GL Fan. Sinestro or Hal are reaping in the rewards. peaches

While Thor is a drunken hobo, Surfer is starring in a shitty Dr Who fanfiction, Hulk is dead.

Originally posted by abhilegend
ermm

You think calling someone a fanboy is flaming?

But calling me a troll is all fine and dandy, huh?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9397832&highlight=fanboy+biased+forumid%3A77+userid%3A502#post9397832

And I didn't call you a troll, I just said that trolls are allowed to troll.

This is also the worst time to be X-Man Nate Grey fan. Marvel give giveth and taketh away.srsly

Originally posted by darthgoober
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9397832&highlight=fanboy+biased+forumid%3A77+userid%3A502#post9397832

And I didn't call you a troll, I just said that trolls are allowed to troll.

Fanboy! Biased ! Influenced!
So you're debating over who is stronger, The Flesh or The Incomprehensible Bulk. Each has feats that could match each other in strength; maybe they've leveled a building or two with a single punch, and so on. You have perfect proof that The Flesh could obviously beat The Bulk in a fist fight.
However, the person you are debating with is known to the forum as IncomBulkFan87. Every time he posts, you find that he completely ignores your proof of the Flesh's victory and asserts that the Bulk is invincible or could easily beat anyone in a fist fight.
At this point, it may be very tempting to shout to him the following:
"You're a fanboy !"
"You're biased against The Flesh!"
"You're influenced by Miracle Comics against Lightpony Comics!"
You consider them to be completely pointless to debate with because of their obvious enjoyment of The Incomprehensible Bulk from Miracle Comics.
But don't do it! It will either automatically devolve into bashing or cause you to look the fool! Not to mention that calling someone a fanboy is also a means of discrediting someone so that your debate is more successful.
Instead, either agree to disagree with the person you're debating against, let someone else reason with the person, or put the 'fanboy' on Ignore.

Maybe next time you will read the rule properly. I'm not debating here or trying to start a flame war.

Oh and.

If you spot someone GENUINELY trolling i.e. making inflammatory statements, blatantly lying about something on panel, then report them. Do not accuse someone of trolling just because you don't like what they say.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Maybe next time you will read the rule properly. I'm not debating here or trying to start a flame war.

Oh and.

Lol as I already pointed out, I didn't call you a troll. I simply pointed out that you seem to be allowed to flame and bash, and then pointed out that trolls are allowed to troll. I never made the connection between your Flamming/bashing and trolling, if that's a connection that your mind made though... maybe it's something you ought to think about.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well put it this way, I personally don't mind rehashing old arguements as long as my older points aren't being ignored because they're old. Neither does/did Bran, Scoobs, Blair, ODG, Rage, Ambient, and several others... and I know that for a fact because the decline in the quality of debates taking away from our incentive to debate in the first place is something that I've discussed with all of them at some point. You're free to believe me or not as your prerogative, but it's honestly because KMC has went from being the middle ground between CBR and herochat to becoming a DC favoring version of herochat.

But would they mind if they rehashed their old arguments - and their (same old) opponents rehashed theirs?

Poster 1: ABC!
Poster 2: No!!!!! XYZ!

One month later:
Poster 1: ABC!
Poster 2: No!!!!! XYZ!

2 years later:
Poster 1: ABC!
Poster 2: No!!!!! XYZ!

5 years later:
Poster 1: ABC!
Poster 2: No!!!!! XYZ!

What was the definition of insanity again?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Lol as I already pointed out, I didn't call you a troll. I simply pointed out that you seem to be allowed to flame and bash, and then pointed out that trolls are allowed to troll. I never made the connection between your Flamming/bashing and trolling, if that's a connection that your mind made though... maybe it's something you ought to think about.

I've sworn off flaming or bashing. It's just not worth it.