Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Captain America's Supersoldier Serum makes him one of the strongest biological humans in marvel (Biological and Humans since heroes like Thor which isn't human or Iron Man or Bucky which have technology don't count in this criteria). Captain Amarican in both Films and Comics has shown exceptional feats of superstrenght.Evidence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ccey7IJLCM
Holding a Helicopter is a feat of SUPERSTRENGHT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP8l6J_H38g
A complete video of all Captain Amarica's fight. Clearly showing how strong he is. He is seen in several instances tossing people and even Ultron's Robots like nothing. He also uses his shield to toss people several feet away (He needs superstrenght for that).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKucyFap_KE&t=65s
There a video with Actual Movie feats, Scientific research, and a TON of research proving how strong Cap is.
I dont see Cage coming anywhere near that.
Having superstrength doesn't mean you are close to Cage in strength.
Cap has very low level movie superstrength. In other words, characters in movies are naturally stronger than real life people. That means some of Cap's strength can be contributed to being a character in a movie.
Anyway, The helicopter feat is around a few tons (2-3). I would say that Cap is on average a 1.5 tonner (but he can occasionally do feats up to 3 tons or so).
Cage on the other hand can casually do stuff that takes several tons to do (like bend the barrel of a gun all the way back). This means he could apply more than 5 times more force is necessary.
Cage can do everything Cap did strengthwise, but easier.
Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
That is your opinionNow a few things from me
This is a slugfest. Means the combatants take turns punching each other. And the lifting or pressing feats mean practically nothing, which is what you keep reposting. What matters is striking feats and durability feats. And you yourself agreed Cage is more durable overall. And where does Cap have striking feats like Cage punching through concrete and brick walls?
Two, you mentioned Cap taking punches from Bucky's metal arm, along with being shot, stabbed and a long fall. You do realize that Cap was KTFOd after that so bad that he had to be hospitalized? And Bucky used the metal arm to oneshot Cap once, arguably twice in Civil War.
Three, you claimed that Cap had no issues taking hits from Iron Man. Then why was he bloodied up and spitting blood with less than 6 hits when IM got serious? He also was gone for 10 mins after the initial backhand he got from Tony. Also, as Vault said, The Civil War suit has no quantifiable feats than forcing open two metal doors and even then that's no striking feat.
And again you made the folly of using a wiki statement as proof for your argument, while it is actually the total opposite of what happened in the movie, the very same reason wikis are considered as unreliable sources on this forum.
Related to above, you claimed that in Civil War Iron Man got the better of Bucky's metal arm. He didn'thttps://gfycat.com/BlaringSilkyGavial
Heck Bucky's normal arm overpowered him
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138600/5442849-1493819712-giphy.gif
I guess forums are made of opinions. The difference between one opinion and the other is that some have evidence, and some are unfounded. So yes, it's my opinion along with evidence.
I appreciate the time you took. Until now you're the only one who has come to me with actual evidence and reasonable points. However there are some misunderstandings you have. So am going to outline them for you ok.
1. You claiming that: Cage is stronger than Cap because he can punch through concrete.
Okay, first of all, the fact that Cage can punch through concrete doesnt prove that his punches are stronger than Caps. Captain America has never hit concrete before, so the outcome is unknown in that aspect (Else prove it). Captain America has hit Iron Man's suit with his fists causing light damage to the armor (Iron Man's armor is stronger than Concrete, so that proves that Cap can strike hard materials without a problem).
But your biggest misunderstanding here is: The concept of strength.
Cage was able to strike through concrete not because of strength but because of density. Cage superdense skin makes his punches like Metal. Furthermore, that doesn't prove Cage beings stronger. How could he hit harder than a man who picks up motorcycles, holds helicopters, and pulls bulldozers? That's scientifically impossible. Strength isn't variable. Isn't like a person who lifts up 100kg will punch less than a person who lifts 20kg! Understand what i am trying to say?
Captain America is able to pick up a motorcycle because he got strong arms, which in turn means he can punch hard too.
Evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDlG32PFHtA
You say that Captain America doesn't punch hard? I found that hard to believe considering the way he punched that punching bag.
So again, no. Cage is quite inferior to Cap in terms of strenght.
2. Durability
Again, i agree Cage being more durable generally (His superdense skin makes him unpenetrable).
But Cap is just as durable.
Yes Cap was sent to the hospital and got severely damage. But you forget the fact that it was Iron Man and Bucky the ones who made that damage.
Cage couldn't replicate that damage.
Captain America has taken bullets, knifes, punches harder that those Cage could ever replicate, and falls from heights no human could survive. Durability wise, Cage wouldn't be an issue.
Luke Cage couldn't replicate the damage Captain has withstood so far.
On the other hand, Cap is WAY STRONGER than any foe Cage has ever faced. So Cage is going to get hit hard!!!!!!! While Cap isn't going to be in that much of a danger.
This is only to defend my point on Iron Man beings stronger than Bucky. Since either way, Both Iron Man and Bucky are way stronger than Luke Cage (Which automatically puts Captain America on top of Cage).
Again you have several concepts wrong.
Cage could NEVER replicate the amount of damage Iron Man's fist do. Nor the amount of damage Bucky's bionic arm does. So either way, Cage is still way inferior to Cap in terms of strength. So isn't like Cage punches would do any serious damage to Cap.
Again, strength isn't variable. If Iron Man can open two metal doors, he can punch hard. It's logic.
Okay it's clear you didn't understood the wiki. Also you misunderstood the videos.
Iron Man's gaunlets are as strong or stronger than Bucky's prostethic arm.
The arm proved inferior to the gauntlets of the Mark XLVI as Stark was easily able to counter it before disintegrating the limb with his unibeam.
Wiki's exact words. Lets verify the wiki's exact words first:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j3Pu_xCjMo
Minute 3:30: Bucky's prostethic arm is hooked to Iron Man's reactor. Bucky is trying to reap the reactor out of the suit. Iron Man manages to hold and prevent Bucky from removing the reactor. Bucky then tries to crush it forcing Iron Man to use his unibeam.
I don't see why the wiki is wrong. Iron Man was able to "counter" Bucky's maneouver by holding the bionic arm. So Iron Man's suit is as strong enough to hold the prostethic limb.
Now let me address your other panel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j3Pu_xCjMo
Minute 0:08. Iron Man is able to hold the limb without a problem again. This proves that MK46 has the ability to counter the prostethic arm of the Winter Soldier. (Considering Stark's inteligence, he wouldn't have built a suit that would be weaker than Bucky's arm).
So again the wiki is still right.
Now your panels dont really proved that Iron Man's suit is weak. It just proves that in that precise moment Iron Man wasn't using strength but his beam.
In the second instance, Bucky's biological arm was able to counter MK46 arm. Just like his Prostethic arm did before. But if you notice, in both instances MK46 was using the energy to create the beam.
Remember it's a robot we are talking about. The Energy was focused on making a bean not on applying force. Take it as a car. A car can focus its energy on either speed or torque.
So basically Tony used his suits energy to cause the beam, not to try counter Winter's Soldier arm.
So, in conclusion. Captain america is stronger and as durable as Cage. That resumes in Cage receiving more damage than he can give. Cap has withstood greater forces than Cage could ever give out himself. So I still support cap.
Did you say Cap took bullets and knives? When he got shot in Winter Soldier, he was visibly hurt. And he actually got shot. Luke stands there while entire rooms of people dump dozens of rounds of bullets into him and the worst thing that happens is he needs to change clothes. Knives literally break when trying to stab Cage. Wtf are you talking about?
Originally posted by KingD19
Did you say Cap took bullets and knives? When he got shot in Winter Soldier, he was visibly hurt. And he actually got shot. Luke stands there while entire rooms of people dump dozens of rounds of bullets into him and the worst thing that happens is he needs to change clothes. Knives literally break when trying to stab Cage. Wtf are you talking about?
What's more, eating dozens upon dozens of bullets and not even picking up mild bruising also translates to blunt force resistance, as people can still be hurt by bullets that fail to pierce them through kevlar, and things like rubber bullets can break bones and even potentially be lethal at close enough range.
Also, the rocket launcher used to shoot Cage is a FIM-43 Redeye. The US army used to use those to shoot down enemy planes.
Originally posted by KingD19
Did you say Cap took bullets and knives? When he got shot in Winter Soldier, he was visibly hurt. And he actually got shot. Luke stands there while entire rooms of people dump dozens of rounds of bullets into him and the worst thing that happens is he needs to change clothes. Knives literally break when trying to stab Cage. Wtf are you talking about?
I am talking about Cap's durability here not Cage's.
If cap can take a bullet and a knife stab, plus several good punches from Bucky's prostethic arm, they why is Cage such a threat here?
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I am talking about Cap's durability here not Cage's.If cap can take a bullet and a knife stab, plus several good punches from Bucky's prostethic arm, they why is Cage such a threat here?
Because Cage can get shot all day and not even feel it. Cage breaks knives against his skin. He got hit with a rocket launcher, and a speeding SUV and a garbage truck(which weighs about 15 tons) without even flinching. Why is Cap such a threat here?
Originally posted by KingD19
Because Cage can get shot all day and not even feel it. Cage breaks knives against his skin. He got hit with a rocket launcher, and a speeding SUV and a garbage truck(which weighs about 15 tons) without even flinching. Why is Cap such a threat here?
Don't misunderstand a punch from a bullet/knife.
Cage superdense skin makes him impenetrable to bullets, knifes, and being basically tore appart by explosions. However a punch is direct force. The Dense skin makes it easy for the shock waves to travel and can basically knock out Cage with enough of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZPdQ3EP-NA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3NcufXUNwM
With enough force Cage will fall.
Cage is durable but doesn't have enough stamina to take SUPERSTRONG punches.
On the other had, Cage himself won't give strong enough punches to cap to make a difference.
Cage won't last Cap punches. He barely lasted Diamondback's!
Your realize all of Diamondback's hits were Cage's own strength being absorbed and redirected by his suit right? It was like Cage was fighting a copy of himself, and at the end of the fight he walked away just fine with a bloody lip. Cap stumbled away from Iron Man, and Bucky had to save his life before that. The knife and gunshots wouldn't have even bothered Luke.
Originally posted by KingD19
Your realize all of Diamondback's hits were Cage's own strength being absorbed and redirected by his suit right? It was like Cage was fighting a copy of himself, and at the end of the fight he walked away just fine with a bloody lip. Cap stumbled away from Iron Man, and Bucky had to save his life before that. The knife and gunshots wouldn't have even bothered Luke.
Yes. And ive akready proven that Cap is way above Cage in terms of strength.
Cap's punches would eventually K.O. Cage.
Again Cage absorbing bullets doesnt apply for punches, since they act differently on Dense skin like Cages.
Originally posted by h1a8
Having superstrength doesn't mean you are close to Cage in strength.
Cap has very low level movie superstrength. In other words, characters in movies are naturally stronger than real life people. That means some of Cap's strength can be contributed to being a character in a movie.Anyway, The helicopter feat is around a few tons (2-3). I would say that Cap is on average a 1.5 tonner (but he can occasionally do feats up to 3 tons or so).
Cage on the other hand can casually do stuff that takes several tons to do (like bend the barrel of a gun all the way back). This means he could apply more than 5 times more force is necessary.
Cage can do everything Cap did strengthwise, but easier.
Only Cap is a billion times stronger than his feats show. that means he's at least a 1.5 billion tonner.
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderYou didn't prove anything. Cage could do every single strength feat Cap did, but easier.
Yes. And ive akready proven that Cap is way above Cage in terms of strength.Cap's punches would eventually K.O. Cage.
Again Cage absorbing bullets doesnt apply for punches, since they act differently on Dense skin like Cages.
Cage is at least twice as strong as Cap.
Cap, in no way, can bend the barrel of a gun all the way back with casual ease.
Strength and durability are two different things. Cap will break his hand punching Cage.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Only Cap is a billion times stronger than his feats show. that means he's at least a 1.5 billion tonner.
Originally posted by h1a8
And Cage and everyone else is still stronger.
Cage isnt even near to MCU Caps level of strength.
Where you got that info from?
Originally posted by h1a8
You didn't prove anything. Cage could do every single strength feat Cap did, but easier.Cage is at least twice as strong as Cap.
Cap, in no way, can bend the barrel of a gun all the way back with casual ease.Strength and durability are two different things. Cap will break his hand punching Cage.
Lol.
Cage has never hold a helicopter. Nor come near close to Cap's strenght feats.
Cap didnt broke his hand hitting MK46 Suit.
