Possible reason liberals believe men are sexist, racist, misogynist pigs

Originally posted by Digi
This is a valid response to my posts in this thread, but I'm very much about approaching topics empirically in general. And I wouldn't discount stats in this discussion, though it can occasionally be hard to analyze methodology and source without a deeper dive.

So, stepping back a second because my responses have also been in response to Surt and Sable, not you until now. Some of the %s you cite are far too high to be acceptable. So that's a problem, and one that I'd happily agree can be overstated to draw incorrect conclusions on either side.

But there are also topics where a subjective observation can inform empirical ones. Is it possible that rape stats can be grossly misrepresented due to false allegations, AND we have societal issues with our treatment toward women that make them more fearful and give them less freedom? The two need not be mutually exclusive.

We may not be in much disagreement here, tbh. You just caught my responses before I had addressed your own.

dude. I quoted a bunch of studies. of course there will be deviation due to sample size and location. BUT THINK, DON'T FEEL. The variance is indicative of a taught culture. that's what makes women FEEL a certain way. but it's not the truth. the truth is in the numbers dude.

Cause FEE FEE's!

Originally posted by Raisen
dude. I quoted a bunch of studies. of course there will be deviation due to sample size and location. BUT THINK, DON'T FEEL. The variance is indicative of a taught culture. that's what makes women FEEL a certain way. but it's not the truth. the truth is in the numbers dude.

I'm not sure how this responds to my post. I didn't critique the deviation in the studies, nor have I really tried to refute them. I'd have to learn a lot more before I'd feel confident responding to the numbers, so I take you at your word in the meantime.

Do you disagree with the question I posed in the penultimate paragraph of my last post?

the fact is there isn't a rape culture.
false rape allegations are rampant.
systemic racism and sexism is bs.

and the majority of people are angry about a lie.

Only skimmed through the thread, but it seems you cats not only proved that there isn't a rape culture, it's actually a culture-of-falsely-accusing-men. Good jeb, guys 👆

Originally posted by Raisen
the fact is there isn't a rape culture.
false rape allegations are rampant.
systemic racism and sexism is bs.

and the majority of people are angry about a lie.

Ok. Interesting. I'm not concerned with being right or wrong here, so I actually appreciate the studies, though I'd have to read a lot more to be able to assess them fully. Politically charged topics like this are notorious for having competing studies that refute one another, so I'd have to see if there are refutations, then refutations to those refutations, etc. to move closer to what I'd consider to be an informed opinion. Obviously there are other opinions on this topic, so that type of due diligence is always good.

For practical purposes, I still try to remain respectful of the women in my life whom this affects directly or indirectly. I used the "they can't go walking" line as a case-in-point, but I also know at least two female rape victims, and another attempted rape victim. And I trust them. I can't say the same for any men, nor in a larger sense in the way men are able to go about their lives less concerned with these matters. "Sexism is BS, you're living a lie" isn't a line that works irl when you can point to ways in which it's not true on a daily basis. Even if it's just the fear that's systemic, and the underlying facts don't always support it, that fear still has a tangible negative affect on women. Maybe education is the answer? But for that reason, I can't say it doesn't exist entirely.

Originally posted by Robtard
Only skimmed through the thread, but it seems you cats not only proved that there isn't a rape culture, it's actually a culture-of-falsely-accusing-men. Good jeb, guys 👆

I predicted the sarcasm. but dude, rape is terrible...it really is. but these "wars"...they are just to rile people up to manipulate them. that's really the point man.

I provide evidence. it's right there. so why not discuss it like an adult?

Originally posted by Digi
Ok. Interesting. I'm not concerned with being right or wrong here, so I actually appreciate the studies, though I'd have to read a lot more to be able to assess them fully. Politically charged topics like this are notorious for having competing studies that refute one another, so I'd have to see if there are refutations, then refutations to those refutations, etc. to move closer to what I'd consider to be an informed opinion. Obviously there are other opinions on this topic, so that type of due diligence is always good.

For practical purposes, I still try to remain respectful of the women in my life whom this affects directly or indirectly. I used the "they can't go walking" line as a case-in-point, but I also know at least two female rape victims, and another attempted rap victim. And I trust them. "Sexism is BS, you're living a lie" isn't a line that works irl when you can point to ways in which it's not true on a daily basis. Even if it's just the fear that's systemic, and the underlying facts don't always support it, that fear still has a tangible negative affect on women. Maybe education is the answer? But for that reason, I can't say it doesn't exist entirely.

ok. they feel a certain way because of false "rape culture" it's fear that's twisting their outlook on life dude.

fear is everywhere

the commies ooh
rape culture ooh
racism ooh
bird flu ooh
weapons of mass destruction ooh

it's a crying shame man. fear and hate constantly being used

Originally posted by Robtard
Only skimmed through the thread, but it seems you cats not only proved that there isn't a rape culture, it's actually a culture-of-falsely-accusing-men. Good jeb, guys 👆

That was raisen derailing the thread with nonsense, this wasnt a rape thread.

It was about the high profile people thinking men are a bunch of sexual predators when they literally chose to hang around the people that are.

Originally posted by Sable
That was raisen derailing the thread with nonsense, this wasnt a rape thread.

I really didn't mean to do that sable.

Except you kinda did.

yeah. I did without even realizing it.

So cut it out. I don't come derailing your threads with nonsense.

you really got some kind of chip on your shoulder. I can't figure it out tho.

Cause you derailed the thread with your rape culture nonsense, I have a chip? This had nothing to do with rape. You made another thread you could have done this in.

you're different than you were before tho.

Originally posted by Raisen
so why not discuss it like an adult?

I am. Or at least I think I am. Legitimate topic or not, you spammed some numbers and are expecting total instantaneous agreement, and have not shown the capacity to consider another's perspective. Would you like to give a reasoned answer to my earlier question, or just repeat your narrative again and claim prescience for your earlier prediction that your debating methods made self-fulfilling? I've gone so far as to consider that I might be mistaken on the topic - while admitting that I'd need to learn a lot more before having any certainty. But is it any wonder that there's nothing but exasperated eye-rolls in this and other threads when no one else is interested in learning or talking without needing closure, but feels the need to validate their opinion at every opportunity?

How we should really do these things is present studies and debate on either side, if necessary say what we think on it, but try to find the best and brightest on both sides, and truly understand them. If you can't pretend to be on the opposition, you probably don't understand their points well enough. As it is, I want to take you at your word, because I really do like factual analysis, and prefer it to more subjective arguments. But your approach to the topic - derailing into your specific agenda - is going to leave anyone with an ounce of cognitive independence with considerable skepticism at your rigor and motives.

/srug

Originally posted by Raisen
fear is everywhere

the commies ooh
rape culture ooh
racism ooh
bird flu ooh
weapons of mass destruction ooh

it's a crying shame man. fear and hate constantly being used

Fear is a powerful weapon for the powerful and influential, yes. Equating each of these things with all the others seems overly generalized, though, and we can throw the baby out with the bathwater with the kind of tone you're using here. Not all fears are unfounded. However, I'd be interested in larger discussions about how fear is used to manipulate (knowingly or accidentally) in such situations.

Digi you are just as much to blame with the Rape thing as Raisen, you Brought it up first to avoid the actual issue. When it wasnt going your way, you brought in this nonsense.

Originally posted by Digi
I dunno. Something like "Rape culture" is shock language that's probably pretty hard to empirically define and prove/disprove. But like, on a more practical level, every one of my female friends either owns mace, won't go walking at night, will asked to be accompanied out of the bar until their Uber arrives, etc. I'll often get antsy in the evenings and will go running (sometimes in the dark). I don't have a concept of what it's like to NOT feel safe doing that. It would be a loss of freedom that - on the whole - would definitely feel...uncomfortable. So I try not to judge too harshly when I can 100% see a difference in everyday life between men and women like that.

It's not a justification for hatred toward a broad group of people, but it's reason enough to try to stay aware of the ways in which gender informs freedoms.

Originally posted by Digi
I am. Or at least I think I am. Legitimate topic or not, you spammed some numbers and are expecting total instantaneous agreement, and have not shown the capacity to consider another's perspective. Would you like to give a reasoned answer to my earlier question, or just repeat your narrative again and claim prescience for your earlier prediction that your debating methods made self-fulfilling? I've gone so far as to consider that I might be mistaken on the topic - while admitting that I'd need to learn a lot more before having any certainty. But is it any wonder that there's nothing but exasperated eye-rolls in this and other threads when no one else is interested in learning or talking without needing closure, but feels the need to validate their opinion at every opportunity?

How we should really do these things is present studies and debate on either side, if necessary say what we think on it, but try to find the best and brightest on both sides, and truly understand them. If you can't pretend to be on the opposition, you probably don't understand their points well enough. As it is, I want to take you at your word, but your approach to the topic - derailing into your specific agenda - is going to leave anyone with an ounce of cognitive independence with considerable skepticism at your rigor and motives.

/srug

Fear is a powerful weapon for the powerful and influential, yes. Equating each of these things with all the others seems overly generalized, though, and we can throw the baby out with the bathwater with the kind of tone you're using here. Not all fears are unfounded. However, I'd be interested in larger discussions about how fear is used to manipulate (knowingly or accidentally) in such situations.

perspective is feelings dude. facts are facts.