Hero of Tython vs Savage OPress

End of Act I Hero of Tython. Prime Savage. All-out fight, to the death, on neutral ground.

Who wins and why?

Savage's O'presses him into juice.

HoT

Act I HoT is already confirmed to be the most powerful Jedi in the Order. Putting him above Satele, who was so strong she could've broken Eldon Ax's bones, was so fast that Eldon Ax could barely see her, and couldn't even hear her destroy a dozen Hex droids she was so quick.

Opress gets shanked.

^ If that's everything HoT has done, Savage.

The opinions of some random people who might not have seen Satele in action, giving HoT baseless praise that might not even mean raw Force power obviously suggests he's better than someone with actually fvcking quantifiable feats.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
^ If that's everything HoT has done, Savage.

Nah, but Fatal Alliance has Satele displaying insane augmentation feats and the HoT surpasses her before the second part of Act I is even started.

He also gets scaling from Aryn Leneer, Wyellett and the Barsen'thor, whose storyline takes place prior to HoT's.

Oh and Myth, Satele herself says the HoT is more powerful.

Luke says Kyp is more powerful than him and possibly Sidious, Yoda and Ben; Obi-Wan says AotC Anakin is more powerful than him. Jedi are humble af and it might also be referring to potential.

Let's also disregard she just says "greatest", not "most powerful". Greatest can mean a lot of sh!t.

If only her opinion wasn't backed up by Lord Scourge, Orgus Din, the Sith Emperor, and both holistic portrayal and authorial intent.

HoT being the strongest Jedi, destined to kill the Emperor, is like literally the point of the character. They didn't have Revan and Surik job for the Emperor and then have the HoT walk up to him and shish kebab him for teh lolz.

Originally posted by AncientPower
If only her opinion wasn't backed up by Lord Scourge, Orgus Din, the Sith Emperor, and both holistic portrayal and authorial intent.

#Holistic Portrayal and #Authorial Intent is basically your gut instinct and interpretation of the character. It means little to me. And yeah, Orgus and Scourge also gave him some nice compliments, but once again none of those compliments refer directly to raw power, nevermind actualized power as of Act I.

It's the same as Blackhole saying RotJ Luke is more powerful than Vader and possibly even more powerful than Palpatine.

Originally posted by AncientPower
HoT being the strongest Jedi, destined to kill the Emperor, is like literally the point of the character. They didn't have Revan and Surik job for the Emperor and then have the HoT walk up to him and shish kebab him for teh lolz.

Yes, the point of his character is to fullfill the prophecy of killing a weakened Host of Vitiate. And he succeeded for about, what, a few months?

Almost universal praise, isn't just dismissed, you have to look at why that praise is given so heavily. Why? Because Bioware decided that Knight = GOAT in terms of TOR.

Hall Hood retconned that, it was actually him that died. The difference was that the Emperor had used massive power during the ritual and it went back in his face. He was vulnerable at that point.

Originally posted by MythLord
Obi-Wan says AotC Anakin is more powerful than him.

Originally posted by MythLord
Luke says Kyp is more powerful than him and possibly Sidious, Yoda and Ben.

No, he never, lel.

Tbh, tho, your entire argument here is pretty terrible.

Yea, didn't that only apply to lightsiders?

It can be read that way, yes - especially given the context and strictly Jedi were named.

Luke has never said Kyp was better than him either, only that he could be the be the greatest of them all. A bit different from Satele Shan outright saying HoT is greatest than her in the present form.

Ahem...

"Luke Skywalker tested Kyp’s Jedi power potential. What he discovered was the strongest Force presence he had known since his Masters, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda."
-- Essential Guide to Characters

"Once my greatest student, then my greatest enemy under the tutelage of the shade of Exar Kun"
-- Jedi Academy: Leviathan #1

And Kyp isn't the only example. Anoon Bondara has similar accolades:
"[Anoon's] skill with a lightsaber was second to none.
-- Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter

"Renowned for his skill with the lightsaber, Jedi Master Anoon Bondara is regarded by many of his peers and all of his apprentices as a role model whose combat prowess is unmatched in the Jedi Order."
-- Jedi Academy Training Manual

Hell, even Kit Fisto has that accolade:

-- Star Wars: Mace Windu #1

There's one for Ulic:
"But Ulic Qel-Droma isn't just anyone; he's a Jedi, perhaps the greatest of his time."
-- TotJ i: Dark Lords of the Sith #5

And these are just some examples off the top of my head. There's plenty of others throughout the EU and Disney canon. They're all either hyperbolic, subjective or referring to potential. The term "greatest" in-of-itself is ambiguous as to what it can mean. So no, I'm not going to throw caution into the wind and accept Act I HoT is already the best Jedi of that time.

Mm, good point Wulfy.

Poor HoT.

You're equating one-off statements from secondary sources to consistent statements regarding the same character throughout multiple in-universe and OOU sources.

Satele also goes on to state at the end of Act I that in the place of the recently dead Orgus Din, the HoT had become a Jedi without equal.

There's no ambiguity here.

What OOU quote states Act 1 Hero > Satele?

Originally posted by AncientPower
You're equating one-off statements from secondary sources to consistent statements regarding the same character throughout multiple in-universe and OOU sources.

Anoon, Kyp and Qel aren't one-offs, though. There's multiple in and out of universe statements about them being GOATs. The same can be said for Dooku and Mace.

Also:

Originally posted by ILS
What OOU quote states Act 1 Hero > Satele?